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There'll be a delay...
... in the next posting. I am going on a three week road trip. If I get a chance, I'll post the next chapter in the next week or so, but there is a strong possibility that it will be three weeks until the next posting... sorry!
I hope that all are enjoying the season.
Oh... and thanks for all the support!
hugs,
Tiff Q
Tiff Q
Strange 20
Hi Tiff,
Thank you for posting what you have Tiff ... I have been enjoying it very much. I hope you have a good trip and look forward to the next installment.
Hugs
Karen
Bon Voyage
Thank you for another delightful chapter. Have a awesome trip, and may it be hassle free!
Huggles,
Winnie
Huggles,
Winnie
Another well-told
Another well-told installment. I'm really enjoying this and can't wait to see what's next.
Take care on your trip and only post it when you are happy with the results. I've had more failures when I forced my muse than when I let it happen naturally.
----
May the Stars Light Your Path
Maid Joy
http://joyphillip.tglibrary.com/
Have a good time and you possed a question
I quote.
>>
“With time, you’ll come to recognize the signs,†Mom Polly tells me, “but I suspect that at times you will get caught off guard like the rest of us.â€
>> Then soon after Aunt Jen says, I quote.
>>
“Oh, darling,†Aunt Jen says, “you don’t need to totally let go of the boy in you to become one of us. In fact, you have a unique perspective that none of us, man or woman, will ever have. You have the chance to gain insights that will help all of us. After all, there are not a lot of people that have the chance to be a full genetic man and a full genetic woman during their lifetime. When you change back, you will go back to your old ‘team’ but for the time being you are fully adopted into ours. For now, I think you should make the most of the experience and just let yourself be the girl that you appear to be.â€
>> End of quotes.
Aunt Jen seems to believe Chris will be back as a boy in a few months, Mom Polly may have had a *Freudian slip* in implying in her comment about Tina's period that Tina is going to be around much longer, maybe for life. If it is only for the summer, Tina would have at most four periods, hardly enought to have the signs of an impending period obvious to her. And the bit that implied even after she is familar with the signs she may get caught off guard, ominous to us *grassy knoll* types.
Was that just an innocent mistake or does Jen know something most don't.
I am most impressed with your efforts so far. A very charming story with just enough hints of conflicting interests/conspiracy theories to keep us on our toes.
John in Wauwatosa
John in Wauwatosa
The official ...
... 'company line' is that this change is only to last the summer, then Chris will be back before school resumes.
That's what the Quinns, Susan, and Jen have been selling Chris. Laurie has been dutifully following her mom's every word. How much she believes hasn't been made clear, but when talking to Chris, she tows the 'company line'.
Chris seems to believes differently with comments (s)he's made throughout, although (s)he keeps trying to convince 'brain central' that that is indeed the case.
I have the feeling that when Jen told the Jeffers about Kris a yr before (s)he showed up, they were quite possibly told that Kris would join their family permanently (so much for staying a Quinn). A few comments/reactions made to Kris after learning the truth about the transformation and the circumstances around it (from Chris' POV), by both the Major and Polly during the 'visit' would seem to point in this direction.
Unfortunately, Laurie's admission she's loosing Chris and seeing only Tina and Chris' reluctant capitulation, has sealed his fate. From that same comment, it appears on the surface, that Laurie has admitted that Tina has indeed taken her Chris from her.
I hoped she would've held onto Chris for the summer as kind of a binding force or reality check, especially for herself. Maybe she reached this conclusion after finally admitting that this was permanent?
Taken in context with the direction of the family conversation at the end, I don't think her comment was a form of 'maternal enthusiasim' at her little girl becoming a woman with her first period as suggested in the text.
If it does come to pass that Kris/Tina Jeffers is a permanent reality, that begs the question ... did one (Amanda?) or both the Quinn's know of their son's fate when this began?
IMO, at least 'one' knows the entire plan and was willing to part with a child for the sake of their work...
PB
Emergency Reversal Spell
I would have thought Kris would have been taught the emergency reversal spell.
You just click your heals (3" or higher) together three times while repeating "There's no place like Nome!"
Michelle B
LOL!!
I've been to Nome, Alaska, a quaint little village that I wouldn't want to return to. I am a suburban girl and like it. :)
Huggles,
Winnie
Huggles,
Winnie
Nome
Was this a reference to the Nomes, from the later Oz books?
-- Daphne Xu
Sexual Preference?
I can't remember if Chris-Tina has realized the sexual preference of er new body/brain by observing er emotions and physical arousal around boys and girls. E knows Laurie isn't gay or bi so with her, e will be Tina, Laurie's girl friend. Did e feel anything hugging Helen? Helen can't react at all, even if she wants to because Tina is jailbait, related to the Major, and because of don't-ask-don't-tell.
If Chris wants some boy time, e can get into the lesbian scene, if e can get out on er own in CA. In bars, over 21 of course, some young slim lesbians are amazing. With the right haircut and clothes they look exactly like 15 YO boys. I could tell they weren't F2M 'cuz they seemed to be pitching their voices even higher than normal, to show that they weren't really thinking they were boys. I actually think that the ones like this that I saw on different occasions were fem not butch.
From C-T's reaction to the teenaged guys, e might be het or bi. E might feel less carried away with femininity, if e tries, if possible, to concentrate on keeping girls as his individuals of sexual interest and tries to generate some level of disinterest, if not revulsion at the idea of pre-sex behavior with boys.
Hugs and Bright Blessings,
Renee
Hugs and Bright Blessings,
Renee
Look Ma, No Necklace...
If the necklace had been gimmicked as part of the plot, Chris won't have that problem for a while. (Probably too much to expect immediate effects from the removal, though.)
We'll see if Laurie picks up another necklace herself or takes Tina to the store to pick it out. In the latter case, the only way it would be technologically enhanced or magically altered would be if someone intervened before they got there. If Laurie picks it up and gives it to Tina sometime later, it might mean she knows more about what's going to happen than she's admitting to.
Eric
I thought that too
If -- a big if, Laurie may have given back the necklace as a show of her love for Chris -- the necklace is *gimmicked* IE has a spell on it or monitoring devices, she/he is free of it now. The question is if gimmicked was it to make her more female, make her happier and compliant or was it to help preserve Chris's mind/spirit in which case she may have just doomed herself to permanent femdom.
Or Eric and I are just howling at shadows.
Love how you keep us guessing just do let us know the truth eventually, is he a lab rat sacrificed by his ambitious mom and others or is it as they claimed and what seems as conspiracy is inter agency bumbling.
John in Wauwatosa
John in Wauwatosa
Gimmicked?
If it was & Laurie returned it knowing it had been tampered with, why allow Chris to present it to Helen? She would have to be aware that Chris was now 'free' and whatever it was, could now affect Helen?
Besides, if not wearing the necklace meant that Chris was 'free' (to choose?) from whatever 'spell', (s)he wasn't wasn't wearing the necklace on their 'date' the previous night nor when (s)he made the decision to let go of the boy and embrace Tina (for the summer??).
If that's true, Laurie engineered that decision by Chris. She could've said 'no' when Chris asked her if it was alright...
... But, that part of the 'grassy knoll' theories, I don't buy. Sorry....
PB
Hi Tiff Great story! Great
Hi Tiff
Great story!
Great characters!
Great writing!
Need i say more!
Hugs Kirri
p.s. Have a GREAT! break.
Welcome to womanhood, Tina.
A girl becomes a woman when she has her first period. By that time a girl knows the facts of life about her body and what to be careful of. This chapter also has Tina accepting that she should be more girl than boy and that she needs to embrace her womanhood as Laurie's female cousin and best girl friend. Are we going to see more feminine mannerisms from Tina from now on? I definitely hope so, and would be about time. Also, I don't mean to get ahead of the story, but I am looking for Kristina to be around permanently. Thank you for sharing.
"With confidence and forbearance, we will have the strength to move forward."
Love & hugs,
Barbara
"If I have to be this girl in me, Then I have the right to be."
"With confidence and forbearance, we will have the strength to move forward."
Love & hugs,
Barbara
"If I have to be this girl in me, Then I have the right to be."
Oh I am sorry...
But I forgot to say something. Why is everyone on a doomsday carnival ride saying that Chris may have sealed his fate, or Chris is doomed to permanent femdom? I'm sorry guys, but there are advantages to being a girl, a lot of advantages. And up until this chapter Kristina has been bucking her female body since the beginning a week ago. It has taken this many chapters to finally get Chris to be Tina. But there is nothing wrong with being a woman and I am looking forward to having Tina around doing girl things with her "cousin" and best girl friend. So again guys, why do you say Chris may be permanently "doomed" to femdom. Being a girl is not a doom, but a wonderful way to live. Thank you. And if the necklace were "gimmicked" I think that Laurie owuld have suggested they get one for her team mate. I don't think the necklace was "gimmicked" and there certainly is no prima facie evidence to suggest there was. If they find out later that is was a charm hold Chris in the body of Kristina, then that will be different. But right for now there certainly is no evidence to suggest that it is "gimmicked".
"With confidence and forbearance, we will have the strength to move forward."
Love & hugs,
Barbara
"If I have to be this girl in me, Then I have the right to be."
"With confidence and forbearance, we will have the strength to move forward."
Love & hugs,
Barbara
"If I have to be this girl in me, Then I have the right to be."
What you want is not good for what Chris wants...
That's obviously right for you and a purely emotional response, but the problem is, that it's not right for Chris and you have to think logically about the whole situation!
Chris is/was a 'normal' 16yr old, acedemically gifted, hetrosexual male, with a girlfriend, a promising future and no TS/TG desires to be a female (that's where your reasoning fails).
At 16, he only has a semester to go before graduating high school and it was stated, he had plans to join his 'girlfriend' at College upon his graduation - in otherwords, a future he could dream about
Now, comes along his 'loving' mother who, for whatever reason, agrees to unilaterally, literally rip her son's life away from him, with no prior consent or consultation with her son whatsoever (his 'agreeing' at the hotel after all was said and done, was not 'consent', let alone 'his free and informed consent'), and condem him into not only to another life, but another existance that he did not want, nor ask for - with another family!
In plain words, in a cold pre-meditated decision that was formed over the period of a year - she sacrified her son for her(?) work. In any case, she made the decision that will see the permanent loss of her child.
If Tina does return to being male, Amanda's actions still condem her son to another existance that he did not want, nor ask for!
IF he returns to being male, he can never be the person he was (keep reading for the negative side of these 'experiances'), thus preventing him to pick up his life where it was before all this happened to him. Wonderous 'experiances'? I don't think so... unwanted things going on in his head, is more like it.
If he has to remain female, the Quinn's have lost their son and his sister's have lost their brother. That's gonna be a real shock for Tiffany who so far as we know, has no knowledge of the change. How will Tiffany and Marta react to their parent's actions once the true nature of the summer's events sink in? Unless mom works some more mind-control magic - reconstructing the memories of the family history, it could very well destroy the family and leave her or her and hubby, quite literally, alone with the girls hating their parents.
If Chris remains female and a Quinn, that leaves problems for the family, least of which is to explain a third daughter. If she remains a Jeffers, that may solve some problems, but open up an entirely different logistical nightmare for Chris and the Jeffers.
Amanda has also totally removed any love/trust this young person once had for anyone, including his parents. In any form, male or female, Chris will be forever paranoid of any of his 'loved' ones, especially if they have any connection to the Labs (regardless of how long that link may be) with their very probable continued interest in her development or reverse transformation - whichever the case may be.
Your logic says "So what? It's great being a women! Why would anyone refuse the chance?"
Like it or not, there are some people that would refuse it and with all the emphasis in Chris' mind on it being only a temporary condition (Tiff constantly mentions that point with any decision that Chris makes to 'accept' his situation), she wants to return to being male - indeed, that's what's keeping Kris/Tina going... that single thought... that single hope!
At the hotel, Chris told his mom that his fear upon returning to being male was that he could end up with effeminate/gay feelings or IMO, a possible undesired side-effect, multiple personalities. Even his mom admitted that the mind's transformation/return is an unknown to the Wizards! They haven't tested it out, yet. What she didn't tell him is that he's the one testing the theories ... oops!
Afterall she did say that he should be honoured and that no one's gone there yet!. Those two statements by themselve's should've raised a large 'red flag' in Chris' mind before he gave his forced 'consent'.
That's 'forced fem' by any defenition!
If it's so painful for a TS to live in their birth gender instead of what they percive as their true gender... why would you wish and even cheer for this condition to be unwillingly thrust upon him? ... A condition that you yourself would not want...
Admittedly, if his fears of returning came to pass, he did request his mom to let him remain female, but as a Quinn. IF that happens, the decision wouldn't be his preferred choice, but it would be the most logical one - making the best of a very bad situation!
I've asked the above question before and no one has even tried to answer.
As long as any of Chris' memories remain, he'll be a male in a female body - literally a forced F2M TS condition. To say all his memories of a prior male life will fade as he mentally completes his transformation is nothing less than advocating and cheering for total 'identity thieft'....
How about a minor RL item, like the direction of the rest of his life?
Tiff mentioned school records for a Kris Jeffers was slipped into the local school in Alaska. Did they think ahead and hack Chris's school records (personal data modified, of course) and use these, or dream up 'typical' less-academically impressive records for the 'average' 16yr old girl, which they're trying to mold Tina as?
That would totally change direction of Chris' life and she'd have absolutely no say! All her hopes for the future he was dreaming about, would be dashed with a contrived 'average' academic history.
If Ashely's friends are indicitive of the crowd she's supposed to be running with... she's supposed to be nothing more than a ditz, obsessed with boys and dressing like a 'working girl', with the sole purpose of attracting said boys. Her friends admitted that's the only reason they joined the swim team - boys and sex!
Did they also condem Chris to that life, or did they at least allow her to continue with his acedemic record and thus try as best she could, to persue her previous career dreams, whatever they are?
Somehow I don't think they did. A girl with acedemic achievements on that level, would likely not run in the social circle of Ashely and her friends as they obviously expect Tina to do. If they didn't intend Tina to run in those circles ... why even introduce her to those specific friends when others who knew Ashley and were at the 'date', were clearly more reserved in their views, like Kris.
This would be TS heaven for Chris - if that's what he wanted and asked for, but that's why (in your words), people say Chris is doomed!
When thrust into an undesired position, logic - not emotion, must be the primary consideration when looking at the overall situation.
Update:
When emailing a friend, I had this final thought...
Isn't it ironic, that a non-TS/TG male should be argueing the point, that it's the right of every individual to live in the gender as percieved by them and not as that as dictated by others?
PB
Okay, first of all....
everybody is saying that my reasoning fails and Chris is Chris no matter what. But yet, Chris was turned into Kristina whether by deceit and trickery, makes no difference, it was done. While Chris was a normal, 16 y/o heterosexual male with a girlfriend and goals, he is now Kristina, and she needs to act her body because if the Major could see through the tomboy "act", then so can many others that Tina may meet in the future. So, whether or not the readers agree, Tina is a fully functional, anatomical female, and to act as the boy she may never again be, is like calling a petunia a rose. This chapter has Tina finally agreeing in her own mind to accept the fate as it is. We will see just where Tiff takes this. But I am sorry that you think my reasoning fails, but it doesn't PB, because I am only going by the evidence presented in the story. My legal background I guess, but even tho Chris hesitantly agreed to this because of how it was presented then, makes no difference now. Any judge and lawyer worth their salt will tell you that. This agreement on Chris' part is like a forced confession. Only on televison is a forced confession thrown out of evidence to be received by the jury. In real life however, it is the police officer's word against an accused felon...who do you think the jury is going to believe? It is the same thing here. Even though Chris hesitantly agreed for whatever reason, after having things explained to him, does not matter now. Now she is Kristina, Laurie's cousin and best girlfriend, and she should act the part that she did, even hesitantly, agree to live (for the sake of the mission), which I suspect there is no "real" mission, except to feminize Chris as a fully functional, anatomical female. But, she has to get on with it, because crying over spilled, or in this case, removed hormones, isn't going to bring Chris back to the boy he was. He is now Kristina, and she is a girl...fully functional, and anatomical. So I am sorry PB that you disagree with my reasoning, but like I said I only go by the evidence.
"With confidence and forbearance, we will have the strength to move forward."
Love & hugs,
Barbara
"If I have to be this girl in me, Then I have the right to be."
"With confidence and forbearance, we will have the strength to move forward."
Love & hugs,
Barbara
"If I have to be this girl in me, Then I have the right to be."
But . . .
Behind the physical gender of 'Kristina' is the male mind and 'soul' of Chris. That makes him as transgendered as any M2F person here. Unless you are going to advocate that everbody here should 'accept' their physical gender and ignore what they feel, then you are going to have to accept that Chris is in reality a F2M transsexual, not a female.
I went outside once. The graphics weren' that great.
Agreed
Though I don't see nearly the number of conspiracies in this story that most of the other readers seem to see, I do see how Chris has been manipulated into this situation that is DEFINITELY a form of forced femme, just handled more subtly than most.
At the same time, if at the end Chris chooses of his or her own will to remain female, and there isn't any obvious or implied mind control/brainwashing involved, I would not consider that to be just settling for female. As of right now, as far as we know, Chris WILL have the choice, and everything that has been done mentally, while often very in your face trying to make Chris into a girly-girl, has been with Chris aware of what is going on, and doing things under his own will, even if he wasn't given a choice on the physical side of things.
As of right now, I would agree, Chris remaining female would be a shame as he never showed any interest in it prior to the first transformation. I also agree that they have permanently changed who Chris is even if he goes back to being male through their thoughtless messing around with his life without his consent. At this point, as the author said in comments on the first chapter, her goal is to see life as a girl from the perspective of a boy as much as possible. WIth the complete physical transformation to female, however, that is going to be far harder for Chris to do than might be imagined.
Chris will have many choices to make throughout the story, and as of right now the only part we KNOW is 'forced femme' is the initial transformation. Nobody knows the end yet, and the middle is still going, so until we've seen how the story ends, there isn't really a way to confirm which way the arguments will lean. *I* hope he goes back to male, but as I stated before, if he chooses freely and with full knowledge of what he is doing to remain female because he is happy that way, that would be fine too. Gender is not strictly black and white, so it is possible that Chris has gone from genetic-male to FtM for now, but could eventually find happiness as a genetic-female if his mental gender is fluid enough. It all remains to be seen.
Melanie E.
'Free will' ... the unknown quantity ...
During her 'hotel explanation', Amanda admitted to Chris that certain suggestions were put into his head to "ease his transition". That's caused speculation that his mental processes/decisions were not made entirely of his own 'free will', but rather arrived at by Chris, due to the suggestions planted in his mind.
Whatever one thinks - mission or experiment, or both ... one has to agree that Chris has been deliberately uninformed when any decision was required of him/her. If it's a real mission and Chris is the main focus, there's still a big 'Why?' to be answered.
Why is he not asking these questions? Maybe more of the 'suggestions to ease his transition' to make him complient?
Similarily, if Chris decides to remain female (assuming he's given the option) - would it be his own free will, or just another decision made as a result of his 'conditioning'?
Again, we just don't know for certain ... although with the vast amount of 'in-your-face' manipulation, and endless 24/7 conditioning, courtesy of Laurie - likely under Jen's guidence .... there's a good arguement that any such decision would at least certainly be heavily influenced by the conditioning he's been put through, if not already 'programmed' into the sub-conscience.
PB
Perhaps I missed that
part about suggestions being placed into his head. To the best of my knowledge I don't remember there being anything where they try to literally control his thoughts. Could you paste the bit where this is mentioned? (I'm not asking this to question your memory, but simply because I don't know how I missed something that big. Perhaps I misread it.)
Frankly, though, I don't think that the kind of 'conditioning' that he has undergone at the hands of Laurie and the other Alaskans has been that bad. After the transformation, either one, he was put through the ringer and off balance, but since then everything he has learned has been handled in what could be considered the normal fashion for this kind of story- a close friend is trying to immerse him as completely as possible in the lifestyle of a girl as she sees it. We've seen this kind of thing in countless stories before, even where the former boys are coerced into situations where they not only have to learn to flirt with boys and turn them down, but how NOT to turn a boy down whether they like them or not. Besides an occasional nudge past Chris's comfort zone, it has seemed to me that Laurie has been a fairly competent guide into her particular form of girlhood, if not the best girlfriend she could be. That's not to say I agree with everything she has done, but for the most part, she has not put him into a situation that I would say constitutes manipulation of his opinions or actions, but merely pushed him just outside of his comfort zone over and over until he could handle things for himself, something that I think this chapter shows she is starting to believe him capable of.
Perhaps I'm just reading the story through a rose-tinted monitor, but so far the extent of the conspiracies I've read in the comments has seemed to grow WAY beyond the scope of any information the story has given us, building more on what each one said in their last comment than on anything actually present in the story that I have seen. I don't see how I could have missed something that big, unless I read it differently than you did, either through dyslexifying the words in my head or just plain not paying attention.
Melanie E.
I thought I read it, but....
I admit I messed up. I was sure I read a line that mentioned that there had been some additional suggestions to ease the initial transformation, but when I went back and looked in chapters 5-8, I found nothing unless you take this (chapter 6)to mean something was done ...
Maybe a more direct quote appeared earlier, but I don't think any explanation of any kind was offered during the 'midnight shopping trip'.
I conceed your point - to an extent (for example, I don't hold to the necklace being 'gimicked'), but I know my POV of an 'experiment' has remained steadfast - being formulated only from event's/dialogue/clues in the story and modified whenever Tiff releases new information that compels me to reconsider things. I've always maintained that I will be the first to modify my thinking if and when Tiff mentions something that compels me to do so.
FWIW, I really do hope that she brings things together and a male Chris reappears with no dominate feminine thoughts/mannerisms. In addition, since Tiff has always maintained it is a romance, it would be nice to see the relationship of the two kids, go to the next level as a result of their time together. But, at this point....
Just to clarify... there may be an actual mission, but because Chris is admittedly the first to go this long in a change (Amanda did admit that in her explanation to Kris, at the hotel and Dr. Quinn did confirm the experiment idea, when challenged by Kris), there's just too many unknowns for the Wizards to observe and learn - and that adds the 'experiment' label to the project. After all, the 'technology or whatever' is likely being developed with covert ops in mind and it has to be perfected.
The fact that these unexpected scenarios seem to be popping up out of left field... it's almost like putting Chris through hastily scripted 'hoops' like a lab animal, just to see the reaction. Boys and dating were not part of the original equation and neither was a 'bimbo' interested in boys and sex, like Ashely's OTT friends tried to 'mold' Tina - just a tomboy.
Interesting a previous comment mentioned that Kris Jeffers was like a female Christopher Quinn and now they're trying to create Tina as a totally different personality that even Amanda probably wouldn't approve of ... if Kris and Amanda's reactions to the way the five teenaged girls at the IHOP were dressed, could be used. (Chapter 7)
Also in chapter 7, I believe when Amanda is explaining to Chris/Kris why (s)he must drop the mom/dad references ...there's the line that Amanda does tell Chris/Kris that the "creation and debut of Kristina Jeffers is being carefully orchrastrated and we don't want to do anything to jeapordize the mission."
How much are they letting Chris/Kris be herself and how much is a conditioned 'puppet'??
PB
That is a decent question
though I think they have already seen evidence that their puppet isn't going to be as easy to control as they expected. While the puppet idea might have been the original plan, it seems to me that they have already begun to change their original plan at least somewhat to accommodate Kris being a bit more of herself- I think the first evidence we see of this is when she left the log cabin to be alone a while. Since then, it seems that they have been much more careful to tiptoe around her, and make sure that they go at a slower pace so she has an opportunity to see things and handle them in her own way. If Chris wasn't trying to work with them, then things would be different, but as is Chris knows what his duties are and accepts that there are things he is going to have to learn, and thus Kris is trying her hardest to do so while still adopting her own methods. They might not be able to control her like they originally thought, but they will have a better and more believable lookout for it. Combined with his/her father's insistence on a code word system to make sure things are okay, I think Tiff is going to easily skirt around any mind control aspects in this story.
I hope I didn't upset you with questioning your memory of the earlier chapters. The manipulation Chris underwent was definitely wrong, but if I had seen any hint of mental control I would have stopped reading the story right there.
Melanie E.
You didn't
Not at all. In fact, I've enjoyed reading your take on the situation and I look forward to further comments as the story unfolds.
Almost as bad as direct mind-control because it also manipulates him into a desired response/action, is the continued denial of information on which would be critical for any informed decision.
Laurie's certainly not helping Kris when it comes to half-truths. She's as untrustworthy as any of the others and Kris even told her outright when they had the talk at the lake by the safehouse.
"I think so," I reply, "but it'll take some time for me to trust you fully again. I like you a lot and I was hoping that you really liked me too. I've been having my doubts about that." (Chapter 12)
Unfortunately, Chris/Kris/Tina seems back to unconditionally trusting people again. IMO, bad move...
One thing I would hope is that Kris' acceptance to try to be Tina dosen't mean she'll be manipulated into going against his het orientation (girls) which according to Amanda's transformation explanation, is intact and give into pressure to be invloved with a boy - which to brain central and Kris, would be a gay act.
So far, and to the adulation of the Mercers and Jeffers, Kris has diplomatically dodged the idea of a boy-girl relationship. Even Laurie's applauded Kris on how she handled it.
However, could you explain your previous comment about NOT turning a boy down even if she didn't like him? Is that something like resigning yourself to a disagreeable action and justifying it by the sentiment.... "For King and Country"?
Curious, that's all.
PB
That
was talking about how in so many stories, even if the mtf character isn't interested in guys, because of peer pressure they somehow get talked into going out with guys anyways. I hate it when that happens, and I was saying I was glad that so far that hasn't happened in the story, though with the way Kris and Laurie's interaction is going I have a bad feeling that at some point in the future she may suffer the same pitfall. So far everything that Kris has been talked into doing- after the first transformation- has not involved trying to change how he feels about things, more just getting him comfortable with what he needs to do to pull off their scam. Pushing him into dating would be too much, as I see it, because that goes beyond teaching someone to act a part and into the realm of messing with their emotions on a deep level, and they are hurting his emotions enough with what they have done.
The 'need to know' information angle annoys me, too, but it fits with the supposed bureaucratic way the organization behind Chris/Kris's change is supposed to work. It also fits with the idea of the top secret information leak- they don't know how far they can trust anyone outside the immediate sphere, and probably still see Kris as at least as much a security risk as she is an asset. Until they learn to trust him/her, if they ever do, things are going to feel shady and lots of misunderstandings and mishandlings are going to occur whether they mean to or not, including the underhanded way they handled the information and features on the laptop and cell phone, among other things. They are focusing on this from a technical and information point of view rather than a personal point of view, just like you would see in any organization when a project trickles down from the top brass to the lower ranks.
Melanie E.
Thanks...
I felt like that as well up to their 'pillow talk', then after the way Kris' handled the 'date' (getting Laurie to back off pushing 'Tina' to look at boys, then not bowing to 'peer pressure')... plus how she delt with the two love-sick groupies in this chapter - I started to feel there might be some hope to be herself, dispite the script.
The enthusiastic reaction to her handling of these 'tests', especially from Jen and Laurie - seems to signal (at least I hope it does) a bit of respect for Kris and her ability to adapt.
Maybe as her principal handlers, those two will end up giving her some more breathing space to be herself instead of trying to mold her to specs.
I don't think the security brass ever will. When Laurie confronted the committee on being open with Chris prior to the change, they refused outright, ignoring her defense of his character. They seem to be convinced they are right and no other opinion matters. Hopefully, events have them eating crow - especially if Kris exposes the leak or an accomplise within the Labs' security.
Agreed.
Susan told Kris the laptop was to stay at 'home' (out of the office, anyway). The surviellance devices (listening/recording capability even when it appears 'off' and GPS) only seem to have one purpose and that is to keep tabs on Kris' 'private' down-time conversations in her room.
They also told Kris her cell was being monitored. I can see that. However, it's surveillence capabilities are like a double-edged sword. They can either be used for her protection, or used against her... but why the surveillence on the laptop if it's only to be kept in her room? Sign of their trust?
PB
Mind-Control?
FWIW, with regard to the discussion of possible 'additional suggestions' being placed in Chris' head to ease transition.... I was sent these three specific incidences that took place during or after Chris was at the beauty parlour, in that (s)he felt there had been some additional programming.
IMO, these seem more of a 'learned' behaviour, not a result of the mind evolving to a female mind.
At the beauty salon:
Apparently there has been a little reprogramming going on since the last dream. We are better prepared for the strangeness this time around
Brain central is showing signs of wanting to explore the new anatomy, but not with an audience. It appears that there has been a lot of new programming put into place since last week!
After donning the robe, I realize that I felt comfortable hanging out in panties and a bra in the presence of the two women. Yep, some serious reprogramming has gone on in the past week. I’ll need to explore that when I get some breathing room.
PB
Fruit of the poisonous tree
This is a legal term, defined as: "Fruit of the poisonous tree is a doctrine of evidence law first established in Silverthorne Lumber Co. v. U.S. (1920). According to this doctrine, not only is evidence illegally seized inadmissible, but any evidence or testimony obtained later as a result of the illegally seized evidence is inadmissible."*
I think this applies to the situation Chris is in. If we accept that his initial change was "forced" or that he was manipulated into it, then any subsequent decisions are tainted by that act, as surely as evidence from an illegal interrogation used to get somebody to confess to a crime is illegal and the subsequent confession is inadmissible. The question being, how can we be sure that any decision Chris makes to become or stay Kristina is truly a decision arrived at freely by Chris? The only word we have that Chris is not being "conditioned" is that of the people who originally tricked him into agreeing in the first place, never mind that he had already been changed into a girl without his consent to begin with.
So, how does Chris choose "freely and with full knowledge of what he is doing to remain female because he is happy that way"? I doubt, based on what has been presented so far, that he is capable of making that decision of his own free will, because I doubt he has free will, only the illusion of it.
*http://definitions.uslegal.com/f/fruit-of-the-poisonous-tree/
I went outside once. The graphics weren' that great.
He loved Big Brother.
This is correct. The essence of mind control, coercive persuasion, Stockholm Syndrome, various other mind-manipulating, thought-reforming tactics, is that in-so-far as they succeed, the victim accepts them, thanks them for it, even loves them. After all, his thinking has changed.
-- Daphne Xu
** Being a girl is not a doom, but a wonderful way to live. **
I agree, IF THE MALE FREELY CHOOSES TO BE A GIRL. Chris didn't, not really. He was a boy happy with being a boy initially changed without his consent. He was then brainwashed, manipulated, and guilted into complying with the ONLY-FOR-THE-SUMMER plan. What we now have is a true FtoM transsexual. Chris is succumbing to all the pressure and reluctantly agreeing to submerge himself and let Tina run things for what he believes to be a precise, limited time - the summer. He is not enthusiastically embracing being female, only agreeing to it's necessity out of a sense of duty brought about by the brainwashing, etc. I anticipate grave psychological problems if summer's end comes and he finds he has been betrayed by those he loves and whom he believed loved him.
BE a lady!
This chapter has just ...
... strengthened my belief that this whole girl thing was a really cruel thing into which to manipulate Chris. His parents should be ashamed of themselves for allowing it. It also seems to me that Laurie is still part of the conspiracy against (I use against deliberately) Chris.
BE a lady!
After two-day archive binge
I get to comment. So, let's start by congratulating TiffQ, of Tiffany B. Quinn, if we believe the title pic, with creating a captivating and interesting story. Finally I can put my own opinion about the first two major arcs of the story.
Yes, two major arcs -
This story has spanned a very comment-rich environment, with overarching motives of Chris's forced feminisation and a grand conspiracy by his loved ones to make him a girl. For no reason stated whatsoever. It has, however, managed to COMPLETELY MISS a very ripe branch of discussion, which was in the explanation of situation given to Chris. Citing the source:
First of all, there is some kind of espionage thing going on out at the Laboratory that is the major employer in our town. Important information about scientific advances that can be used for weapons development has been finding its way from the Lab to the Middle East and Afghanistan. It has been going on for some time but no one has been able to figure out who is obtaining the information or how the information is getting out. The Lab's security group has tried all sorts of electronic surveillance, analysis of computer network traffic, background checks, and placing undercover agents in the Lab to try and observe anyone around the people who are developing the information being stolen. The results have been very unsatisfactory. The agents were able to identify quite a few people who could be considered suspects, but never could they get close enough to any of them to tell if they were the ones. All sorts of new security procedures have been put into place, but they have done little more than slow down the traffic.
During the recruitment phase, they had no intention of going into the depth of detail that I am getting tonight. I am getting the full story now because, like all good plans, something had gone awry and they needed to gain my cooperation quickly. That something wrong occurred half a world away in Afghanistan.
In another raid, Army Rangers found evidence that the insurgents are desperate for more specific information to be obtained from the Lab and are putting extreme pressure on their agents to get it. Quickly.
Everyone is a critic. Everyone criticised the treatment Chris underwent, the ineptitude of the security team, the fallacies of their stated plan, the crappy backstory made up for Kristina. A lot of conspiracy talk about unneeded surveillance in the laptop. But nobody, and I mean NOBODY ever asked a very important question.
WHAT IS IT THAT THE INSURGENTS ARE AFTER???
IT WAS STATED IN NO UNCERTAIN TERMS that the transformation is the penultimate disguise/espionage/infiltration asset but no long-term tests were ever arranged. WHAT IF it is the transformation process ITSELF that the insurgents are after? But to use it effectively, there is a need for information - is it possible to make a transition, accomplish the tasks at hand AND make a safe re-transition? This is where Chris comes into picture. But how did they know about him?
Once is an accident. Two is a coincidence. Three is an enemy action.
The hush-hush week after the shopping night? The number of cleared uninvolved people with main subject in total dark? The shopping night rush? The surveillance devices in Kristina's gadgets? The list can go on for quite some time. And suddenly, all those discrepancies click into place when we assume that The Mole is one of honchos in Security team. No need to soften the blows to the dirty american lab rat infidel - if he goes insane, the process is ineffective and not worth the risk; No need to keep the operation a closely guarded secret - the Big Bad is already in the know; No need to brief the agent properly - he is not supposed to succeed anyway; No need to worry about his reports reaching the right ears - a few subtle changes made by someone who MANAGED TO STAY UNDERCOVER for several years AT THE VERY LEAST will void them null.
Now, I'm sure the friends and family are earnest, and I'm certain that Susan (Chris' direct supervisor) is loyal to the USA, but the higher-ups are less trusted. And it means that Kristina is heading right in the lion's maw, and according to Chekhov's Gun, the JOGGING line will be used, and Susan will be the one to make Deus Ex Machina possible. How much can a decision-maker fuck it all up? The example is right here on this very site, in grover's story "Heroes of Justice", who, blackmailed by the antagonists, all but delivered the entire world into slavery of superworldly entity and its evil minions.
And as for the raging topic of Kristina overtaking Chris, check this story, "Sisters?" by Brandy DeWinter.
http://www.geocities.com/brandy_art/sleet/sisters_format.html
A short retelling is that it is about a guy who suddenly found himself able to pass as a young and beautiful girl and, with encouragings from his best friend, her mother, and his mother, used this opportunity to get to know what the world is like from the other side of the gender fence. In the end, both he and his female persona were in harmony with themselves as one whole integral being. Like Chris, he was quite happy as a guy, and never gave a thought about being a girl before the experience. So, my own opinion on how Chris will come out in the end, is easily that he will return to male side of fence, enriched and energised by his experience as a girl, and have a long and prosperous life (I'm a sucker for good endings). I envision him as a father of a son and two daughters who chastises his eldest daughter in front of her girl friends, and then gives her some insights on appearance and outfit choice. When his daughter is asked whether he is gay, she smiles and says:
"I have two siblings, and every time my Dad and Mom meet or part, they go for a six-second kiss. You do the math."
P.S. The author avatar is evidently present in the story, but she is still far away from the scenery. What will her emergence bring?
P.P.S. I will be reposting this comment when 21st part comes out.
Faraway
Okay, this is the author of original comment again
Unfortunately, due to this being one of my first comments I can't now edit it, as I did not have an account at the time, but... Forgive me for the broken link. I never expected Geocities to shut down, and so far I haven't found another source with this story... In fact, I hardly even tried. So if someone finds it and PMs me I will gladly post a valid link here.
Faraway
Big Closet Top Shelf
Where you can fool around like you want to and most you get is some bemused good ribbing!
Faraway
Big Closet Top Shelf
Where you can fool around like you want to and most you get is some bemused good ribbing!
Chris/Tina
Is learning how to merge their separate selves into a whole, but will Tina, or Chris win the battle of identity?
May Your Light Forever Shine
May Your Light Forever Shine
she's come a long way
big test yet to come
Tampon
Oooo, tampon installed? I am quite sure that a transformée would wait quite a long while before undergoing that. Not only that, I seem to recall talking about tampons earlier. (Searched back...) Laurie refused to help Tina with tampons. Maybe Mom and Auntie helped with the dirty work with her privates. (Really, that's gotta mortify a former guy. Traumatize him.)
Nice race, and nice dealing with the star-struck guys.
Is Chris really going to stop thinking of Laurie as her girlfriend? Especially without thinking of her as one who tricked him and led him to his transformation?
-- Daphne Xu
This is going to be difficult.
No matter how it goes down. There is a very real chance that Kris will lose Lori. Which would be a shame.