I was reading Michael Pollan’s new book, A World Appears, this evening. In his book, Pollan discusses the nature of consciousness and how we have democratized consciousness; how we have pushed consciousness downward to other mammals, cephalopods (like octopi), some types of insects (hive minds?), and possibly even plants.
But he does not agree that AI may some day develop consciousness, as many others have postulated. His reasoning for this is that he basically says that the belief AI can become consciousness stems from the idea that the brain functions like a computer and that consciousness is merely software. Pollan challenges this notion, stating that consciousness is not something that can simply be replicated in machines.
Pollan emphasizes that "real thought" is deeply connected to feelings, which are tied to our physical existence and vulnerability. He asserts that AI, including chatbots, cannot genuinely experience feelings because they lack bodies and the ability to suffer. Therefore, any emotional responses they simulate are "weightless" and "meaningless." He believes that AI may simulate thought but will never achieve true consciousness, as it lacks the essential qualities tied to human experience and emotion.
It is Pollan’s belief that without a physical body and the ability to suffer, without the ability to feel, there can be no true consciousness.
In other words, to paraphrase Descartes famous statement, “Cogito, ergo sum”, I suffer, therefore I am.
Or as Shakespeare’s character Shylock questioned, “If you prick us, do we not bleed? if you tickle us, do we not laugh? if you poison us, do we not die? And if you wrong us, shall we not revenge?”



Comments
But What If
AI brains are partnered with robotic or android bodies?
Also 'soul' needs to be defined. This is a subject for 'how many angels can dance on the head of a pin?'. I don't think it can be theologically defined.
I think the point here……
Is that without feelings, without being able to experience emotions and suffering, there is no real consciousness.
So the further question is can a robot, or any machine for that matter, really feel?
D. Eden
“Hier stehe ich; ich kann nicht anders. Gott helfe mir.”
Dum Vivimus, Vivamus
Now?
Probably not, almost certainly not. But what is pain but a signal to the organism to avoid whatever is causing pain? If we haven't given AI robots that capacity it's probably because we haven't needed artificial beings with "instincts" for self-preservation. In fact, right now, we probably actively don't want such beings brought into existence.
Hugs,
Erin
= Give everyone the benefit of the doubt because certainty is a fragile thing that can be shattered by one overlooked fact.
Carrying further from here…….
There is physical pain, which as you have already expressed is a response to an external stimulus. And yes, it is survival trait. That which can hurt us causes physical pain.
But then there is emotional pain, which is what we are defining as suffering. If we lose the person who means more to us than life itself, we suffer greatly - as many here already know.
How can a machine suffer that loss? How can a machine know that pain? That suffering?
D. Eden
“Hier stehe ich; ich kann nicht anders. Gott helfe mir.”
Dum Vivimus, Vivamus
If it becomes important...
...we will figure out how to build it in. But will they thank us or curse us for doing so. Here, eat this apple, said the snake.
Hugs,
Erin
= Give everyone the benefit of the doubt because certainty is a fragile thing that can be shattered by one overlooked fact.
hmmm
that's fairly deep hun.
quidquid sum ego, et omnia mea semper; Ego me.
alecia Snowfall
In The Future
Robots/AIs/ Androids will be taught to care for human individuals. That will become part of the survival imperative. Should harm befall the individual it will cause emotional pain to the guardian. Will such pain be evidence that the robot has a soul?
If the AI can replicate other human functions I don't think it is too farfetched to consider.
Consciousness is awareness of self and others.
to demean the consciousness of other species, such as octopus and bees does us no favours, it just shows more hubris and ignorance of the sentience of other species.
Angharad
I agree…….
And that was Pollan’s point when he stated that we had democratized consciousness. He was acknowledging that mammals, certain cephalopods, some insects, and possibly even certain plants exhibit consciousness.
To be completely honest, your average octopus shows more consciousness than some humans do. Case in point, a large group of humans situated in Washington DC are severely lacking in that area.
D. Eden
“Hier stehe ich; ich kann nicht anders. Gott helfe mir.”
Dum Vivimus, Vivamus