Somewhere Else Entirely - Epilogue 1

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STUNNING

Brilliant
Superb
Enchanting
Question-opening

Thoroughly, thoroughly, thoroughly entertaining

Altogether excellent

Thank you

Julia

Chapter links updated

I have updated all the chapter links for this episode.

I have also posed a question about this chapter and the Index in a blog.

Cheers

Julia

Interesting way to end it

The romantic in me would love to see if Keren ever Evolved so they could be together.

Wonder if Garia is still advising as she is still around in a sense?

Two hundred years? That is like technological evolution at 30gs of acceleration. In a way that is good, less waste of resources for dead end steps but is hard on the population in a way. To get all these cultures to band together so quickly is the real miracle.

I can see that the sociological and cultural differences will be the most difficult thing, Jesus Christ indeed.

I can't wait until the first Jehovah's Witness tries to make their first house call or Gideon bibles get distributed and trashed as fast as they are given out.

It is the beginning of first contact but the encounter with the alien species is coming faster then was discussed with the VMBs.

It is good to see the animal life is being preserved, even the nasty Ptuvils. I wonder what they have learned about communications with the dranakh? It would be interesting if they could be made to evolve back to being a fully sentient species again.

A great way to further describe Anmar BTW.

That White Blood cell thingy

I would assume that it does not go around destroying symbiotic organisms we all have?

its meant for "inside

its meant for "inside organism" (blood) and not for "inside body" (gastro-intestinal tract)
so i think it would have no impact on symbiotic organsims living inside body

Not quite true

IIRC, there are organisms that circulate in our blood also and since they are there they don't trigger either our innate or adaptive immune response. How symbiotic? *shrug*.

a clever bit of engineering is needed for TPTs

When a woman gets pregnant, baby and mother do exchange cells to a certain extent. For the TPT to treat the baby as an intruder would be Bad of course. One would think this artificial organism will have to have receptors of some kind to prevent it from attacking the baby, just like real white blood cells do.

There must be a way to deactivate them then

If those thingies can't be deactivated, blood donations would be impossible, assuming of course they use natural blood donations still.

It's probably that they are

It's probably that they are programmed with the dna of the user, and if that dna isn't present, they deactivate. (How they deal with chimeras would be interesting).

I'll get a life when it's proven and substantiated to be better than what I'm currently experiencing.

Chimeras

I'm sure that the Anmarans thought of that. I expect that, in the initial setup, the bugs will note that the person is a chimera and accept both DNA types (which are pretty close, anyhow.)

Similarly, they are probably programmed with the genotypes of the common symbiotic bacteria of the human body. This means that they will probably have to be reprogrammed to accept the Earthlings' symbiotic bacteria.

If the Earth people are using the restroom facilities of their borrowed building, getting samples will be no problem.

Since the Anmarans were expecting to make contact at some point, they probably have thought long and hard about the situation beforehand. The building that the Earth people are using has probably been set up for that purpose from the time it was built. It probably has some good isolation protocols, and can be locked down very quickly. It's doubtful if the sewage is dumped straight into Anmar's treatment plants.

I love the hover car

A word of warning to these visitors is that if they start hearing about Krell metal, run away!!

^_^

Well

..that was unexpected. I had been hoping to read about Garia returning to Keren. Ah well... they have certainly advanced.

Great story.

Joanna

Garia and Keren

must have lived interestingly ever after. This time interval gives us a huge imagined or written history to fill it with. Good news to see that Anmar survived its social and technological evolution. Although we don't know at this stage if everything is well with the world, this chapter suggests quite strongly that the people have learned from Earth's mistakes, and prospered.

Teri Ann
"Reach for the sun."

Well, this was a shocker,

Well, this was a shocker, definitely not the chapter story I expected.
It is very, very interesting and first contact between planets is always a fun read.
Hopefully both peoples will learn from each other and not just war stuff.
Will be interesting to find that Anmar might become the savior of Earth later on.
What a neat way of honoring for Garia and her crossings between the two worlds.
I really like how names have been continued through the centuries, such as Milsy and Campbell, and even Keren. Very cool indeed

I'm conflicted.

I'm pleased to see an end result, quote/unquote, but disappointed that we didn't get to see what happened after she returned. (Think of the epilogue of Maiden By Decree, for an example. Garia chasing a child into Keren's office, inauguration of the first rail road voyage, etc )

That said, we're definitely into fun stages!

I'll get a life when it's proven and substantiated to be better than what I'm currently experiencing.

The romantic in me -

Well the microscopic fraction of romance that has survived within me, would have dearly loved to have at least read some part, (large or small) of Garia's return to Keren and Anmar. Seemingly, I and all the other readers are unlikely to ever have that pleasure unless Penny's got a surprise for us in the next (last?) chapter.
As to the 'meeting of technologies' and the apparent differences between them, well we can only wait and see and speculate as to the intentions of 'the beings'.
The way this fantastic saga has ended hints to me that Penny is wishing to end it reasonably quickly for her own purpose and or needs. Nevertheless, I like many other readers on BC, am looking forward to the concluding chapter/(chapters?).
Thanks for a splendid story Penny, if it is to end with the next chapter then I'll be sorry to see it go.

xx Beverly.

End of Anmar?

Don't worry, Bev, there are some more Tales of Anmar in the offing.

This was always intended to end in more or less this way, with the final two, now three, chapters providing closure after Garia's adventures in Palarand.

...but I don't think you've seen the last of Garia, not yet.

Penny

Dogs have owners; cats have staff. Grand-daughters have minions.

Not seen the last of Garia

So that could mean one (or more) of three possibilities:
(a) we meet Garia's evolved form in the final chapter (or at least a standard four dimensional [x,y,z,time] projection of her form),
(b) there's a flashback in the final chapter,
(c) a new tale to fill in some of the gaps (perhaps with two main PoV characters - Garia and Milsy)

Meanwhile, I spotted an interesting Quora thread:
If I brought a laptop into renaissance times and presented it to the top scientists, would they be able to figure out how it works? What technological advancements would come from this?...

As the right side of the brain controls the left side of the body, then only left-handers are in their right mind!

not sure

I wasn't quite sure where you were going at the start of this chapter. after getting into it, I found you were going toward a very good place. great start, keep up the good work.
robert

I can see how you would need one or more chapters after this to

And I look forward to them.

Sometimes a good way to tell a story or part of it is from the viewpoint of an outsider. Or even a third party impartial observer... a "device" Alfred Hitchcock used with great successes.

"I" -- John puffs up chest and looks smug -- am either a damned lucky guesser or may have actually encouraged this "future" chapter.

Most likely the former.

Seems an obvious way to give us readers a sense of the effect Garia will have on the future.

So inorganic things the Guardians -- The Vast Multidimensional Beings -- "sample" and then can transmit a copy wherever they need. But living things they transfer via copying the DNA then making a "clone" of sorts.

Thus they could let Garia bring seeds that later would be planted very carefully to avoid exotics taking over.

Most likely there exist on Anmar plants/molds/bacteria etc. that can produce the useful materials she is looking for. IE natural rubber, fine oils, drugs etc.

I remember the Vast Multidimensionals commenting Garia was a bit like them. IE that she could communicate with them and even initiate a transfer to one of their planes of existence implied she was more advanced then they expected a human to be.

Does her mind/consciousness still exist in the future?

At the very least I suspect she left a recording or hard copy message for any future space travelers..

Do the Earth colony travelers have a copy of the doctor's notes from the previous chapter?

This has been a fun "ride". Sad to see it nearing an end.

John in Wauwatosa

I M H O

Well, Mr. Good Guesser ...

I have no concrete evidence to back up what I am going to say ...

So here's my take on 'developments'.

a) Dr Gottlieb's notes were left with the instruction "To be opened if ever a planet called Anmar is discovered" (or words to that effect. So far we have just a matter of hours since the Earthlings arrived on Anmar, so no message about its discovery could have been sent yet and reach Earth. Therefore, to let us know if this ever happened, the next chapter(s) will have to open up a new location entirely and introduce a multitude of new characters which seems extravagant for a story that has thus been so detailed.

b) I am sure that Penny is aware of the HUGE amount of feeling her special fans have developed for Garia, and Keren.and Palarand and its development, and I daresay that King Keren XI is going to explain to the crew of the Vasco just how Palarand, then Alaesia then all Anmar came together and are set up for Galaxy-saving weapons-construction.

The next episode will I'm sure tie all the ends together, Penny could NEVER be so cruel.

Surely?

Re: I M H O

Based upon Penny's latest track record and the sheer number of loose ends, I predict that despite her best intentions, Penny will not be able to close all of the loose ends in a "satisfying" manner. Either some of the "loose end sewing" will spill over into one or two additional chapters, OR...

("Spoilers" - River Song)

I have to echo what

Bibliophage on Sun, 2016/01/24 - 10:53am said. I wish we could have read what happened with Garia after she returned.

How ever I do also like what I am reading right now. Anxiously awaiting the next installment.

Vivien

"I have questions"

Josette (always a lite sleeper) cautiously opened one eye.

Garia: "Hello"

Josette (having watched one too many horror moves was not frightened. She slowly sat up and examined the bioluminescent creature floating next to her bed in the darkened room)

Josette: "Who or what are you?"

Garia: "I am Garia."

Josette: "Garia is a fictional character."

Garia: " I assure you I am as real as you are."

Josette did not visibly react to Garia's statement. Instead she calmly replied.

Josette: "You certainly don't look like how I imagined you would look like. You look more like a wormhole alien."

Garia: "(giggling) you have been watching too much television."

Josette: "I have questions."

Calendar malfunction

The Anmar calendar description doesn't add up. Depending upon the number of months, if each month is thirty-one (31) days, the calendar is twelve (12) days over or nineteen (19) days short.

With a 391 day year (plus one fractional day), the most logical calendar is thirteen (13) months of twenty-eight days and one month of twenty-seven (27) or twenty-eight (28) days.

That is why we need a pope! To decree how many days there are in the "odd"month of the year!

Calendars

Hi Josette,

all this has been explained in both SEE and in JoB, and is covered in the Appendices too. (See the Index thingy)
Briefly, there are 13 months, each of 31 days. The 13th month is SOMETIMES dropped.
They know when a year ends/starts because it is the longest night/shortest day. Whichever month is in progress at that moment continues until the 31st, then the month of Marash starts which is ALWAYS the first full month of the year. It's just that the 1st Marash is not always the first day of the year.

So the 13th month (Endormin) is usually there, but is sometimes dropped if the year change day falls within Zuberak.

Julia

The index can be found:

http://bigclosetr.us/topshelf/fiction/48235/julina-blackston...

Months

As an additional comment to Julia's reply:

Months are always 31 days, since that is the number of days that Kalikan takes to make one revolution.

In practice, it isn't exactly 31 days since the orbital period is slightly more; that's why astronomers like Gerdas keep a track of what's going on and very occasionally an extra day is added. This doesn't belong to a month and has no number but is often treated as an extra day of celebration, ie it may be appended to MidWinter's Night or another festival.

Having a month equal to Kalikan's orbital period is also convenient for women, since their menstrual cycle also exactly matches that of Kalikan's period and thus each cycle can be simply calculated.

Penny

Dogs have owners; cats have staff. Grand-daughters have minions.

Re: Months

Okay, making a month equal to Kalikan makes sense. It is not necessary to add it to your Narrative (SSE), but I am sure that several members of the Earth Ship crew would mentally make the same calculations and come up with the same comments I did. The Anmar "delegation" would no doubt have to provide to their "visitors" the same explanation Penny provided to me.

After several hundred years of the Pope's calendar, Earth people will have considerable difficulty adjusting to the Anmar Calendar.

I was not expecting a time jump of 200 years.

I can say I was however pleasantly surprised to go from a industrial revolution to interplanetary and possible interstellar.

I can only imagine the learning and books written by Garia to be opened as the sciences evolve.
"Volume 252 - Graviton: Only To be opened once sub partials of a proton are captured and contained"

I am however a bit disappointed because I think the introduction to all the simple technologies was some of the most interesting part of "Somewhere Else Entirely." I loved how the introduction from Garia introducing a fork, to Semifore towers, float glass, steam engines, electricity, etc. each had a small cascade effect on the locals. Even introducing Corrugated Cardboard, trusses, and rail roads each had their place in the story, and you could imagine the wheels in the minds of the people Garia would bring a "big" idea too. I think I will miss the evolution of technology the most, but it does free the author from worrying about every possible invention and its effects. Imagine if you will if Corrugated Cardboard had been invented on earth instead of late 1800s to say 1600's with Columbus, what would the effects have been. What would have changed? Would it have stopped a few Plagues? instead of leaky crates, where rats and insects could have gotten into them. Who knows.

I have no doubt that Earth is going to try to make them a colony

That of course will not fly so they should make that clear in any agreements and stuff.

Anmar has to be cautious in dealing with Earth Government as we are a very untrustworthy lot and tend to violate treaties at a whim (think Indians.) Anmar is such a valuable resource, it is inevitable they would want to control it just like any 'good' politician (sounds like an oxymoron aint it?) would. They will want to set up free trade deals and bring in their corporate clowns to rob and plunder if they can. And being also 'human', Earth will send the inevitable spies.

Anmar should best be on their guard.

Natural Resources

Planetary resources are pretty much useless to outsiders. Why mine copper and iron and drag it up a gravity well when you can crush asteroids and get all you want?

Probably the stupidest plot device I have seen is a star ship transporting petroleum. Just getting the petroleum out of the gravity well of the source planet would take more energy than is in the oil. Then, there's the issue of transporting it using an FTL drive.

Really stupid.

Also, if you want copper and nickel and iron and stuff, and insist on getting it from a planet, why fight for it when you can get it from a dead planet?

The real resources that you'll find on a planet that contains life is information. Or, to be more precise, the life itself. And that's only the case if we still need pharmaceuticals. More likely, extraterrestrial life will be more of a scientific curiosity than anything else.

Who said anything about natural resources?

Know how and manpower and its strategic location (well hidden, possibly by that Veil Nebula) is what makes it a valuable resource. There would not be enough resources on the planet to support war production on the scale I am anticipating, I would guess. Rocks from the other parts of the system would be what is used.

Of course the war can come to Anmar if there is an Earth traitor who spills the beans to the aliens.

But come to think of it, natural resources IS a factor then. Anmar, as the only intelligent life, lays claim to this entire system, it is still technically their SYSTEM's natural resources that will help build an arsenal.

Oh I see.

And as far as the plundering goes, trade will be in the form of finished goods (e.g. those communicators.)

Raw resources, short of some rare organic compound that is not reproducible or exotic foodstuff (Pel?) would not be the extent of any niche trade off-planet.

Oh, and something occurred to me. What if Anmar has developed a relatively inexpensive way to escape the gravity well?

Don't Trust Earth

I am hoping that Anmar's "exchanging of fluids" eventually sends a little prezzie home to earth in the form of genetic modification that will make Earth "humans" less sleazy.

It's what I did in one of my stories, so I like the idea.

Gwen

Who knows?

It can work both ways, and Earth people intermingling with Anmarians could infect them with their stupidity. It is unavoidable that there will be co-mingling if this pact comes to fruition.

However, I dare say, Anmar will have to strictly prevent an influx of 'immigrants' who will just come by an ruin the whole thing.

Thrilled to learn about the

Thrilled to learn about the future but bummed to not experience the advances in civilization as they happen it was fun, kind of like a living history lesson. I wonder why the aliens didn't help the earth to advance its technology.

Anmar emissions

There is of course the faint possibility that Anmar would've been discovered if a starship happened to catch earlier tech development from say 100 years ago (if they are 100 light years away for instance), it all depends on powerful the transmitter is or if those emissions are being screened by the Nebula.

I am deeply saddend

to see the end coming so suddenly. I have loved this story from the start, and actually got many of my friends, who are not TG fans, reading it due to the intense social interaction, technological advancements and explainations, historical references, romance, and oh hell the list is just too long. Now I shall be soundly cursed by said friends. This is an amazing adventure and has carried me through many terrible painful hours. I have seen friends die, friends leave on new adventures as I stood and waved them off, family grow closer and further apart, and my own body go from old but fair shape, to badly crippled through old injuries and severe arthritis. Through it all Somewhere Else Entirely, and Stevie Wonder's music, were there for me. I cannot express my gratitude enough. At least I shall get to see the end, before my own comes. So in Stevies words, I just calle dto say I love you, and I mean it from the bottom of my heart. God bless.

I am a Proud mostly Native American woman. I am bi-polar. I am married, and mother to three boys. I hope we can be friends.

Disturbing, a bit.

We have two facts. One, the ruler is Keren XI (The Eleventh). Two, it's been 206 years since Robanar was King. Assuming that Robanar died in the year Garia was gone, and that every ruler since then has been a Keren for Reign name, that would mean that each King only ruled for about 19 years. Yes, in England, from 1485 to 1685, we _did_ have about 11 rulers (not counting Cromwell), but that included Edward VI (sickly boy), and Mary I (Bloody Mary), neither of whom reigned for more than 6 years. (Oh, and Lady Jane Grey, who reigned for 9 days). I would have expected that 1) there would have been more names than 'Keren', 2) there would have been at least one or two Queens, and 3) Rulers for longer than 20 year spans. (Maybe not Victoria's length, but maybe 40 years).

So, we either have very boring rulers, who retired early to raise bees, or whatever they use on Anmar, or we have a lot of rulers who ended up like Charles the 1st. (10 inches shorter at the end of his reign than the start of it)

I'll get a life when it's proven and substantiated to be better than what I'm currently experiencing.

Interestingly, I fell at first into the same trap

Hi Bibliophage,

There is one unknown in that supposition though.

'Our' Keren, the Garia-lover, will/did become King after Robanar - but who is to say what the names of the Kings BEFORE Robanar were. Perhaps there have already been six or so King Kerens before Robanar!

Not a lot has been written about the period before Robanar - yet!

Thanks for all your comments over the span of our stories.

Julia.

Well, I'm also assuming that

Well, I'm also assuming that 'Robinar' isn't exactly an unusual name, as well as the fact that we've never heard anyone talk about 'Robanar the First' during the various events. (Yes, this actually _does_ happen. "Her Majesty Elizabeth the Second, by the Grace of God of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, and of Her other Realms and Territories Queen, Head of the Commonwealth, Defender of the Faith." (since 1953) (Yes, there's no comma before Queen. Don't ask me why. She also has a slightly different title for Canada, NZ, etc) This is especially important during things such as the coming of age ceremony for Keren. You have to outline the reason why _this_ person is doing the job.)

So, I was assuming that the multiple use of Keren was due to the same reason that the 'new' Milsy is a Campbell - honour and tradition from Earth, post Garia, and that rulers prior to Robinar didn't bother with regnal names and numerical designations. (Well, that and they didn't understand Roman numerals :) )

Bad assumption? Or reasonable?

I'll get a life when it's proven and substantiated to be better than what I'm currently experiencing.

Depends on traditions

Palarand may have the pattern of the first ruler of a name not having such an appellation tradition and the 'first' is never mentioned. In Keren's case it is simple of course as he was not crowned yet. If I were to guess, he was probably Keren the Eighth. Luckily he is no Henry the VIII :-)

Lineage

Prince Keren I officially became an adult soon after Garia arrived. They got married several months later. They probably had their first kid within a year of her return.

Keren II was probably born 1-3 years after Garia's return. Keren III may have been born 17-20 Anmar years after that. That depends on how quickly Keren II found a wife. Considering that he was probably the most eligible bachelor on the planet, I can't see him holding out to the age of thirty.

So, if the kids were born, give or take, every twenty years, getting up to Keren XI isn't unrealistic.

If they tend to live an average of eighty years, I can see a long string of kings ascending to the throne at about sixty, and reigning for twenty years.

Or some might decide to retire early, allowing their sons to ascend at about 40 and retire at 60. The King Emeritus would then be a valuable counselor for the king.

So why was Keren XI king at such a young age? Who knows?

Penultitmate Chapter

After reading everything, I see there will likely be one more chapter with a mention from the author that we haven't seen the last of Garia. I hope not! I hope to at least see an epilogue about Garia's return and possibly her children. I'd like like to make sure that Snep survived Garia's absence and didn't die of a broken heart. Poor Snep.

Anyway, forget all the sulking about having no Garia in this chapter. I did enjoy this chapter. The names were a little confusing at first. There were too many that were the same as Garia's time in my opinion. Other than that, I love the sneaky technology of Anmar. I can't wait to read more about it. Interspace sounds like a very interesting concept -- perhaps like Star Trek's subspace?

Thanks and kudos (number 154).

- Terry

What Penny Has Done

She has told us many things:-

* Garia got back to Anmar safely.

*The technological doo-dads and sociological information that she brought with her made it through the transfer.

* Armed with all that information she kick-started the industrial/social revolution on Anmar.

*She and Keren had kids (inferred, I admit) and started a dynasty that persists through to the time of this interstellar visit.

*The principalities and kingdoms of Anmar are united under a joint constitution.

*Women are equals in this society.

*In some respects (at least) their civilisation is superior to the Earth-derived one(s)

All this in one chapter, plus lots that I haven't mentioned.

I do admit that, as a hopeless romantic, I would love to see Garia's and Keren's reunion and ensuing married life and their ascension to the throne and the triumphant years of their reign, and I am hoping that the next chapter may include a recounting of that time to the visitors from Earth....Pretty Please.

Still, if it's not to be, Thank you Penny for this magnificent saga.

You are so right

And there are other subtleties here, like the Six Cities of Garia's time, have now become the Eleven Cities - and a citizen of that area has become the Anmarian Prime Minister.
The clever use of surnames - and the special use of Campbell!
Oh this episode is packed with goodies that are not mentioned in a 'hit you over the head' way.
I do not mind admitting I am in awe!
Julia

Some missing though

I will look again, though I caught most of the subtleties you speak of. Eriana's line I did not catch for some reason. The use of surnames at all, which Palarand did not seem to have before. I guess considering the extent of the population by now, that is not surprising.

Speaking of which, has Anmar avoided over-population? Fusion has licked the energy problem of course, betcha they skipped the whole fission era except maybe use a reactor or two to develop certain technologies?

What made it possible for such a swift sociological evolution? Earth is still its usual barely holding it together self I would think, with the colonies a pure necessity due to its over-population.

I think I caught the Elllika Archer one, Sounds like Ellika's descendant may have married one of Stott's children.

Earth would love to understand what makes Anmar succeed. The landing party of course hinted at the fact Earth is its usual fetid self, air-wise, though one would think fusion power would've suppressed fossil fuel use.

So what happened to Teren's line?

Anyway, something to look forward to I think.

Over Population

On Earth, affluent societies tend to have a lower birth rate. I don't see any reason that won't happen on Anmar.

Since they worked so hard to avoid Earth's mistakes, and those in charge take noblesse oblige seriously, I would imagine that Palaran started to enjoy prosperity pretty much across the board, and that the noble and generous monarchs made sure to bring everyone into the fold as quickly as possible.

So, the birth rate went down with the infant mortality rate -- just like on Earth.

Birthrate on Earth still has not slowed down

In the odd industrialized country, yes, we are, as a planet still on track for something like, what, 10 billion people by the end of this century. When I was a child it was no more than 5, No, as long there are religious nuts who do not believe in contraception or people who are poor and ignorant or have stupid traditions of males being essential (read China) the population will continue to produce more than is necessary to sustain a planetary population, And frankly, the majority is just a waste of space (yes me included.)

Such pessimism

Population growth is, in fact, slowing down. The population is still growing, but not as quickly as before.

Education among girls is at an all time high.

Education among everyone is at an all time high.

Infant mortality is at an all time low.

Disease is at an all time low.

Bad news sells. That's why we see more of it. The truth is, however, that things are getting better and better.

Is Poverty Necessary? Looking back at the Millennium Development Goals
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n5DZF7YvwwM

Hank Green: Pissed Off For a Better World
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VT690t6Ahjs

How Not to Be Ignorant About the World | Hans and Ola Rosling | TED Talks
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sm5xF-UYgdg

So... when you actually look at the data, you can see that the world is getting better. In fact, I fully expect that we will be past the age of scarcity in the next 20-50 years. Wed will be able to order pretty much whatever we want from our own private 'Santa Clause' machines. We will be able to climb into our bio-printers and have our bodies repaired or made over in any way we like.

Earth fetid?

Actually, most of Earth is quite pristine.

Yes, I was there when Lake Erie became almost dead. We then watched as it got cleaner cleaner. "I can see the bottom of the rudder." (on our sailboat.)

In the developed world, things started cleaning up quite rapidly. When I was a kid, the murk (pollution) index was part of the weather report. By the time I joined the Army (1979,) that had disappeared. I was disappointment to note that it wasn't quite as clean in Germany, but the rest of the free world started to follow our lead and was soon cleaning up.

When the Soviet Union fell, much of their territory was found to be horribly polluted -- with some really toxic stuff, in some places.

They're getting cleaner, but it takes time.

With the exception of air pollution in a few cities, and some polluted rivers (like the Thames,) most of the free world is fairly clean.

Alas, the undeveloped world is further behind. When they don't have to spend all of their time just feeding themselves and providing shelter, they'll be able to take a bigger role in cleaning up their land.

As for the captain's question about the air quality, the answer was:

"Better than in here, Captain. Real clean. Shall I crack the hatch?"

He was comparing the air outside to the multiply recycled air in the ship.

And anyhow, if they were comparing it to the air at home, they would be comparing it to the air at Tau Ceti.

Yes fetid

As a New Yorker I still would not take a swim in the Hudson river, nor take a swim near a random shoreline (friend almost got a bad infection from inhaling a bunch of water) anywhere. God forbid somebody try to do anything with the East river. There is of course the ocean of garbage people throw into it that is the size of Rhode Island or something like that, gathered in the Pacific ocean. There is the mercury in the lakes due to coal fired plants which will never leave the environment so there are mercury warnings on most fish we eat. Foul air that China still can't breathe.The Exxon Valdez site still isn't really cleaned up whether people want to believe it or not.

Pristine, hardly, there is not enough to support the ever burgeoning infestation that is man.

Penny is being so optimistic as it is that Earth can get its act together in 200 years to say the least.

There is still so much chemical pollution in our waterways that the public at large just is not aware of.

You might be interested in what we get up to in the summer here

And I appear in this video!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_3XmSVgT2sg

Well there are always exceptions

Switzerland is not as industrialized and is in a good position to still have relatively clean source of water. Upstate New York in the US provides NYC with very clean water. Bad water is not always visible of course. I will look at the video again and see I can spot you :)

Yes, there are always exceptions.

As a rule, the world is pristine. The exceptions are the relatively small (but populated) polluted areas.

Like I said, the entire Great Lakes watershed is clean. Well, except for Chicago and Zug Island.

Not that small anymore

China is now renown as a big ol industrial cesspool, with streams running yellow/brown in the great many industrialized areas. The air pollution floats across the pacific and onto our shores too so, no pollutions' impact is not so 'localized' as one would be lead to believe.

The only reason air pollution is not even worse are clean air laws that have come into effect.

I know it will raise the hackles of a certain party wing but the dissolving of CO2 into the oceans is acidifying it, causing problems such as Coral reef destruction, habitat loss.

No, the world is not as healthy as one would hope.

Were you interviewed?

Or are you the interviewer ^_^

Were you the 'float away' girl? :)

River

Swimming in glacial melt water? Are you part polar bear?

We have some even nuttier people here (Cadillac, Michigan, USA.) They chop a hole in Lake Cadillac and take a dip every year -- the so-called Polar Plunge.

Confirmation bias

Yes, there is still pollution in some of the more populated areas in the developed world, and in larger (but still populated areas) of the developing world. I mentioned that in my last essay.

Most of the world is pristine. The polluted areas are relatively small. Of course, since those areas are densely populated, we tend to concentrate on them when assessing the damage.

There are a number of places that I would call the armpits of the world, pollution wise. You won't catch me swimming in the Thames or the Hudson or any of the great sewers of the world.

But, there are many places where we have made great strides in reducing and eliminating pollution. I personally watched Lake Erie come back to life. The Great Lake system above that has always been clean. Now, the whole watershed is clean -- with the exception of a small pustule at Zug Island.

There is a danger in not recognizing the great strides we have taken. If we lose hope, we stop trying.

As far as mercury and lead and stuff -- that tends to settle out and get buried. Future paleontologists will find the contaminated layers in the strata. The contaminants will no longer be part of the biosphere. They will be sequestered -- just like they were before they were dug up in the first place.

So, to summarize: Yes, there is still pollution in the world. It isn't nearly as bad as it was in the sixties, though.

In the sixties, we became more aware of our own pollution (western world,) and started to do something about it. Later, the nineties and beyond, we became more aware of pollution in other areas -- specifically, areas that we had little contact with before the fall of the Soviet Union.

Alas, we can't tell the Chines cities or Calcutta or even Mexico City how to live their lives. We can provide aid and advice, but they will have to clean up their own mess.

didn't obama's administration do more...

than advise the Chi-Coms by shipping them a boatload of chevy dolts... erm I mean volts that no-one bought here?

Sadly

I'm still here off the shore of Lake Erie and we just recently had an algal bloom scare and since they've implemented an early warning system and satellite images show the lake itself getting worse and worse again. We're headed towards a dead Lake Erie repeat if we don't turn things around. So far their solution has been to crank up the water treatment, implement early warnings, and ignore the problem.

Abigail Drew.

10 Movies Garia should select - 1 America the Beautiful

On 1/16, Penny posted a blog entry called "Taking Movies to Palarand". In this blog, Penny asked people to suggest what movies/videos Garia should bring back to Anmar. I didn't (find) read the blog until 1/23. I thought that most of the responses were very poor. After a couple of hours of thought, I posted a comment listing ten (10) Movies Garia should select.

The first movie that I thought Garia should select I rejected for two (2) reasons: (1) I did not think Garia could bring back the technology to show the movie ( I was thinking the Movies should be playable on an iPhone or a laptop.); (2) The movie is owned by Disney and no longer being shown. I didn't think Garia could get a copy. I did not include it on my original list posted on 1/23.

After I posted the comment, I was dissatisfied because I felt that something was missing. So, I thought further on the issue and did some additional research. It looks like it is available on Amazon .com (IMBd). I assume with one screen only???

(A change from my original list, America the Beautiful becomes the first movie I would show if I were Garia replacing My Fair Lady- the last movie I would show).

America the Beutiful was an attraction at (the original) Disneyland. It was sponsored first by AT&T and then by PSA (my favorite airline - their Stewardess Uniforms were OUTSTANDING). You would be herded into a circular theatre with handholds but no seats and surrounded by nine movie screens. The twenty-minute movie was an arial/auto/boat tour of the United States. If you have never seen it, it was awesome!

This film would give an Anmar audience an amazing overview of Somewhere Else Entirely. Would anyone on Anmar privileged to see this movie aspire to accomplish great things?

10 Movies Garia should select - 2 The Sound of Music (1965)

The second movie I would show would be The Sound of Music. I included this movie to improve music on Anmar. My approach in selecting what Garia should bring back is to select tools that will improve the entire Anmar culture and inspire residents of Anmar to improve the culture not just provide technology. I felt that providing tools to inspire and develop creativity was more important than just providing technology. The trip to Earth was a one-shot opportunity. Since the goal of the aliens was to develop technology on Anmar to meet a future threat, technological development would have to expand beyond the current level of Earth technology (if not, what would be the point of trying to push development on Anmar?). Just providing existing technology on a silver platter is insufficient. What is needed is the ability to create new technology in the future. In other words, Garia's goal should be development of creativity in a stagnant culture. Music is an activity that requires creativity (just what was missing on Anmar).

The Sound of Music is an inspiring Film. I am sure that the people of Anmar would enjoy watching and listening to this movie (even if in a foreign language).

However, from my (Garia) standpoint the most important component of this movie is one song (Doe Rey me). On Earth, this song is used to teach scales to children. After reading what Penny and Julia have written, I concluded that knowledge of scales is unknown on Anmar. After showing this movie, I (as Garia) would aggressively lobby the council to immediately have this song translated and distributed throughout Anmar as an educational tool.

The movie shows 1930/1940 Earth fashion and some important technology (bicycles and horseless carriage). Although bicycles are low tech, I can see a use and demand for bicycles. The scenes in The Sound Of Music with bicycles should be enough for Anmar to develop bicycle tech (though I (Garia) would also have some technical info on building a bicycle on one of the storage devices). The movie shows some European architecture and how upper class homes are furnished (useful pictures to encourage Anmar guilds men to develop new furniture/home designs).

The negatives are this movie shows more modern firearms than are available on Anmar and some exposure to Nazi Germany values.

More on the Sound of Music

Part of the reason Penny decided to limit telling the story of what happens when Garia returns is that it would be so difficult to write. After selecting my original ten movies list ( not my favorite movies list, nor my greatest movies of all time list) that Garia should select, I mulled over my selections. Unfortunately, I made the mistake of thinking how I would summarize the Sound of Music to an Anmar audience that did not speak English. I quickly turned my brain into Jello:

Garia: "In the 1914th year since the birth of the great priest, there was a war on Earth that was called "The First World War". On the side that lost were two nations Germany (the Earth equivalent of Yod) and Austria (the Earth equivalent of Forgiland). The losers of the war Earth Yod and Earth forguland were treated harshly. As a result, Earth Yod was very angry and in the 1938th year since the birth of the great priest, Earth Yod invaded and took over Earth Forguland. This was one of the mistakes Earth made that we should avoid. We should treat Yod in a way that doesn't make them so mad that they start another war!
In Earth Forguland there was a captain who served in The First World War. His wife had died and he had seven children. He was very strict with his children and had trouble keeping a governess (an Earth word for a servant who takes care of children). There was a young girl who was training to be a priestess. She was always in trouble because she was always wandering off and singing. Everyone liked her, but everyone knew that she wasn't going to be a good priestess so she was sent to the Forguland Caotain to be a servant taking care of his children. She charmed the children and taught them to sing..."

(At that point, my brain had turned to jello and I was laughing hysterically.)

DID YOU NOTICE how I included a lesson on how Yod should be treated?

Hold your horses - or frayen

Josette,

I do believe that you are jumping the gun slightly here. Penny has yet to finish her story, and I have no idea what will come next - but to say that she is not going to do something or that she should do something else is pre-judging the issue based on no information.

Also the equivalent of Germany and Austria does not work with Yod and Forguland - there is a nation between the two, Ferenis.

But other than that I must say that, although we need wait for Penny's next (which is possibly the last), I am sure that there will be some sort of backstory explained that will tie up many, hopefully most, of the loose ends.

Julia

10 Movies Garia should select - 3 Olympia (English Version 19

The third movie I would select is Olympia (English Version 1938 both parts). This was a German Documentary about the 1936 Olympics in Berlin. This movie is on many lists of the top movies of all time. However this movie is notorious because it was directed by Lili Riefenstahl who also directed Triumph of the Will. Both movies are considered to be propaganda films glorifying Nazi Germany.

The movie is a beautiful and breathtaking portrayal of the Olympic Games. I included this movie to introduce Olympic sports to the Anmar people. After showing the movie I (Garia) would suggest to the council that Anmar build an Olympic stadium and hold Olympic Games to bring the people of Anmar together (a very important diplomatic tool at the beginning of the new federation).

As part of advancing the culture of Anmar, I would want to develop athletic competition and a love of sports among the people of Anmar.
I believe that concentrating exclusively on technology risks causing a society collapse (in order to expand technology, people must see that the technology improves their lives) or causing another stagnation period once all of the technology provided by Garia has been developed ( in other words, providing tools to increase creativity (the ability to create technology) is more important than just providing "tech on a plate").

The second reason, I choose to include this movie is the stadium itself. The Berlin Olympic Stadium is an excellent example of what the Chivan Stadium would have originally looked like in its days of glory. After showing the movie, I would point out that the stadium in the movie is like the ruined Chivan Stadium and the movie shows what the Chivan Stadium could have been used for. I would add that what has been lost can be recovered.

As Garia, I would want to inspire the Anmar people to greatness!

10 Movies Garia should select - 4 Union Pacific 1939)

The fourth movie Garia should select is Union Pacific (1939 Western). This movie depicted the building of the Union Pacific (one of the two railroads building the First Transcontinental Railroad). This movie was released shortly before the start of WW II and has been accused of being a propaganda film. Since Garia was planning on building railroads, I thought it would be a good choice. It does show how railroads were constructed in the 1800(s), but it is not really a technical film. Obviously, Garia would also have brought technical information (especially on engines). This movie would at least allow the council to visualize what a railroad actually is. A more modem film could have been selected, but I thought something from the 1800(s) would provide a better visual picture.

A drawback of this film is the heavy presence and quickness of use of firearms. Also, it portrays some Earth people as worse than Yodians. But it is a good story that would entertain as well as inform.

10 Movies Garia should select - 5 Spirit of Saint Louis

The fifth movie Garia should select is Spirit of Saint Louis (1957). In my original list, I mistyped the name as Pride of Saint Louis. This movie staring Jimmy Stewart, tells the story of Charles Lindbergh's first flight across the Atlantic in 1927. The reason this movie was selected was obvious. It displays the technology of flight and shows part of the development of the technology. Again it is an inspiring film that hopefully will inspire Anmar to develop flight and other technologies.

10 Movies Garia should select - 5 Spirit of Saint Louis

10 Movies Garia should select - 6 The Agony & the Ecstasy

The next movie Garia should select is The Agony and the Ecstasy (1965) with Charleston Heston (a young Charleston Heston as Keren?) and Rex Harrison (the perfect Robanar?).

This movie is about Michaelangelo painting the Sistine Chapel. I included this film because it depicts the creation of one of the worlds greatest works of art by the worlds greatest artist. I selected this movie because I believe that art is a vital tool needed to develop creativity on Anmar. This film shows some of the finest paintings and sculptures by Michaelangelo.

In reading SEE and JOB, I do not remember much being said about art.
I am sure the Chivans would have art. As Garia, I would want to encourage finding what was lost (Chivan Art) within the people of Anmar.
I believe that art requires creativity and enriches the culture. I think it would be a mistake to focus exclusively on technology ("man died not live by bread alone").

10 Movies Garia should select - 7 Titanic (1997)

Number seven should be Titanic (1997). What can I say? "THINK BIG"!

The visual image of seeing the huge ship next to the passengers would awe the council. I cannot think of any picture that better shows the magnitude of the task Garia has presented to the people of Anmar. I can imagine having a drawing made of the huge ship and the very small passengers and distributed to all of the rulers of Anmar.

This movie shows the technology of the early twentieth century and the lifestyle of the people (clothing, transportation methods, buildings, dancing, painting, eating, etc ). Showing this movie makes the point "THINK BIG"!

In addition, the movie shows the risks inherent in developing new technology. The movie is a love story that would probably be popular when people could see it. Unfortunately, I suspect only a few people would be allowed to see these movies for many years. Partially due to the limits of the available technology and partially due to the necessary need for secrecy (at first). I wonder how long before the information about the existence of Earth is released to the people???

How long before the ability to show these movies before a large audience will be available???

What will be the reaction of the audience???

Will the movies I selected be the "right stuff???

Re: - 6 The Agony and the Ecstacy

GROAN!

"Man died not live by bread alone"

I HATE AUTOMATED SPELL CHECKERS!

It should have been "man does not live by bread alone"

10 Movies Garia should select - 8 Apollo 13 (1995)

Movie number eight should be Apollo 13 (staring Tom Hanks). This is where the Aliens need Anmar to go (space). This is a cautionary tale of the perils of developing technology and the triumph of science. This movie demonstrates late 20th century culture (including a faith in science and technogy). Garia would point out that this is where we (Anmar) must go. It is a massive and difficult task, but we can and will succeed. "Failure is not an option".

A lot of technology is shown in this movie including jet planes (she would point out the advance in technology from 1927 to 1970), TV, Horseless Carriages, Telephone, Modern Ships, computers, buildings and all the other things in the movie that we take for granted. How many days would it take for Garia to answer all of the councils questions on this movie?

I wonder if showing these movies resulted in making English a dominant language on Anmar??!

???

Can anyone tell me why my cell phone is producing comments in a "funky" narrow column?? The comments were posting normally this morning???

I'm Gonna hold off posting any more comments in the hop that my cell phone returns to normal

Sorry can't resist

'dinosaur period herbivores'

You mean, there is hope for getting bronto burgers? Yabba Dabba doooo!

^_^

Penny, You WONDERFULL .......

From: Dolly the Ignorant Idiot (A reluctant, but UNREPENTANT evil SHITE)

Unto: All and Sundry. Especially Penny Lane

Greetings;

Dearest Penny. What are you wasting your talent writing SEE for. This chapter is one of the best examples of science fiction I HAVE EVER READ!

Not only have you tied up Anmar history, but you came up with a believable way for Putvrils to have four limbs and wings too!

Prior to this, I was a devotee of the Anatomically correctness thing for Dragons.

VERRY NEATLY DONE!!

As to movies; I recommend the following:

1. Brave Heart 2. 1776, 3. Since I am a devotee of the 1632-verse, and in the 1635 The Veinnaese Waltz the said that someone had figured out how to transfer video content to film: STAR WARS A New Hope!

Sorry about the spelling.

THANK YOU Penny!!!!

Anatomically Correct Dragons

If they are not Anatomically correct, how do they reproduce?

Dragon Anatomical Correctness

Unto: All and Whoever

From: Dolly the Ignorant Idiot

Concerning Anatomical Correctness of Dragons, (Or Putvrils.)

There is no Anatomical Correctness of Dragons concerning reproductivity.

My source for this comes from a special on Dragons, presented by either TLC, or Discovery channel

I saw about a decade ago. I believe it is available now on U Tube, along with a bit about the making of the presentation.

Dragon anatomical correctness is very simply this: You can have only so much muscle mass on the chest and shoulder area. Therefore the wing and fore limbs, (For walking or grasping,) must be integrated.

Check ou the following examples: Vermithrax Prejorative from the film Dragon Slayer, The dragons from the Harry Potter films, and Smaug.

The presentation was very good and recommended for ALL!

Sorry about the spelling.

my thoughts

excerpts

I'm named Milsy after a very brilliant ancestor from about two hundred years ago.
The calendar before was after the great flood. Major world events restarted the year count.
Perhaps it is 200 years after first launch to the moon.

It is the beginning of first contact but the encounter with the alien species is coming faster then was discussed with the VMBs.
How much time has really passed. I dont know.

I wish we could have read what happened with Garia after she returned.
We may get to read a lot about that. There will be history accounts, diary that will cover such an important persons life to look at.
Now this tale has been broken down in to volumes how many more are still to come.

Dates

Huh?

If you look at the email notifications, the year clearly states 1380.

All the action in the previous chapters states "1174 since the Great Flood" and "1175 since the Great Flood" since the year turned in chapter 112 (MidWinter's Night). That makes 206 years. There's nothing vague or restarted about that.

This isn't a contact with an "alien species". This is contact with humans exploring from a colony established from Earth, most likely in the 22nd century or so. The "alien species" will be explained in the next chapter.

Penny

Dogs have owners; cats have staff. Grand-daughters have minions.

'Cigar' shaped?

I didn't know there were smokers on Palarand or maybe that is from other parts of Anmar?

Cigar

Or maybe they saw the description used in all of the Earth science fiction (written) that Garia brought back.

Hey, do you imagine that she only brought back movies? A novel takes one to three megabytes (text.) You can put a couple thousand of them on a single eight gigabyte micro sd chip.

A niche genre would not lead to such usage

People tend to use familiar things for analogs. So when has anybody dragged something out of some science fiction book that is totally not of their culture and incorporate it into their conversations? Klingon?

Surely there are other Anmarian things they could have substituted for 'cigar.'

As an example.

Would you describe such as shape as 'hey, that looks just like cylinder of series 7000 aluminum'?

Before jumping all over ideas

Before jumping all over ideas, could it be that it was just something as simple as "They smoke?"

You can smoke cornsilk, tobacco, and marijuana. Why wouldn't they have something similar from one of their cultures.

I'll get a life when it's proven and substantiated to be better than what I'm currently experiencing.

One would think they had more sense than that by then

If I were a betting woman I would think that Garia would've taken that little nugget with her as part of her transfer, not to mention making sure people understood that. Also, there had been absolutely no mention of smoking the whole time in Palarand. Of course, there could be other parts of Anmar where they do.

Eh. Most things that are

Eh. Most things that are smoked don't have the issues that tobacco does. Even cigars aren't as lethal as cigarettes.

Marijuana, for example, has been studied for over a century, and there have been zero links to long term health problems, no matter how hard they've tried. (Short term, it's a neurotransmitter inhibitor, but then, so are monoamine oxidase inhibitors. Six weeks and you build up a maintenance level. Go off of them for six weeks, and they're flushed out of the system).

I have no clue what people do with corn silk and other substances. I just know they've been smoked.

Keep in mind that a lot of native tribes still use tobacco as part of their ceremonies. Usually leaf, but giving a pack is considered a sign of respect. (Some packs can last years)

I'll get a life when it's proven and substantiated to be better than what I'm currently experiencing.

Maybe

But there is a reason they are not smoked in Cigar sized quantities. MJ has other effects of course so smoking on that level is not done. When was the last time you saw a MJ cigar? All burning plant substances generate tar, question is if they have other substances added that also exacerbate problems.

Frankly I would like to avoid inhaling scalding hot air into my lungs loaded with particulates if I can avoid it.

There is also of course the carbon monoxide in smoking

Which of course is never good.

Cigar?

To paraphrase, sometimes a cigar is just a long cylinder tapered at both ends.

I admit it, it was lazy to have Anmarians calling the shape a 'cigar'. Finding names for shapes when you have no local referents can be extremely difficult at times. There have been several occasions throughout SEE where I have struggled to find a reasonable descriptor for some object or action that wasn't intimately Earth-based. The reader of course knows exactly what I'm referring to but the locals couldn't possibly do the same.

Guilty as charged. When I eventually do the Great Edit I'll review that word and try and think of something more suitable the locals would use.

Penny

Dogs have owners; cats have staff. Grand-daughters have minions.

Simple enough I think

Let's say one has a famous cylindrical skyscraper (well known of course) in Anmar somewhere, though a skyscrapter over about a kilometer long ... whoa.

(Cigars) Did you see Savannah's comment below?

It is titled; There is much etc etc

That sounds to me to be a very relevant observation. 'Cigar Tube shaped' would be a very Earth expression and I daresay some of the descriptions that Garia brought back with her may well have used it. Once Garia explained to the Anmarians what it meant, I can see easily that they could adopt the expression. So maybe the evils of smoking cancer-inducing stuff have indeed been avoided on Anmar.

Re: Cigar (Ray's) Question/Posting comments problem solution

In the last chapter (SSE 138), there was a listing of the electronic equipment and electronic storage units. There was enough storage for technical documents, e-books, YouTube files, pictures, AND movies.

There are a large number of comments discussing what movies Garia should have selected because one (unnamed to protect the guilty) person was posting the reasons why the movies on a "10 movies Garia should select list" (previously posted on one of Penny Lane's blogs) were suggested.

Re: Solution to comment posting problem:

I received a private email from Erin. When you post a comment (IN REPLY TO AN EXISTING COMMENT) using a cell phone the comment is indented (slightly). If an additional reply is posted the comment is indented further. Post enough replies using a cell phone and you end up with a column width of one letter! The solution is to post new comments rather than multiple replies.

Thanks Erin and Jiulia for their assistance.

What does Garia look like?

There is another science fiction epic on big closet that I like. This epic (by Wolfjess7) has three books Death's Own Daughter, School Time for Death, and Knights of Death.

In the second book (School Time for Death), there is a picture of a cute Japanese Lolita at the beginning of each chapter (I love The look of Lolita Clothing. If I could afford it, I would order a custom made outfit in my size. I would definately wear it on Holloween).

In the third book (Knights of Death), at the top of each chapter there is a picture of the back of a naked Japanese girl holding a Katana (sword) in one hand and a huge tattoo on her back. In the first book Death's own Daughter, as her first official act after taking control of the Nakatoma clan, the heroine pulled the katana from the waist of the commander of her bodyguard and beheaded him (lots of blood and gore in this one - her "father" was called "the man called Death" and she is called "Death's own Daughter"). I think the graphics add value to the story (in one chapter she included some awesome drawings of men that had been transformed into cyborg women). In another chapter she included drawings of the new empress of the empire and the court of an allied race. The heroine and her wife both got tattoos in Death's own Daughter and several of the school girls in Schooltime for Death were forcibly tattooed by a Yakuza family (subsequently destroyed by Death's Own Daughter).

In an earlier chapter of SSE in one of my comments I suggested that Penny commission a graphic of Garia. I wonder if there are any creative artists who enjoy this story and who would consider drawing a picture of Garia?

I wonder what Garia looks like. I know she is short and has a distinctive (short) hairstyle. Unfortunately, (like those poor catless Anmarians) I lack the creativity to imagine what she truly looks like.

In one of my comments above, I was describing a movie called the Agony and the Ecstacy. I listed the stars of the movie Charlton Heston and Rex Harrison.
I suggested that a young Carlton Heston (Ben Hur, The Big Country, The Ten Commandments) might be a suitable Keren. I suspect most of you would prefer a younger (more current) star to represent Keren.

I believe The other star from The Agony and the Esctacy (Rex Harrison) would be the perfect Robanar. His performance opposite the feisty Eliza (Audrey Hepburn) is just so Robanar & Garia. Unfortunately, Audrey Hepbern is probably too tall to be Garia. His performance opposite Cleopatra (Elizabeth Taylor) is also so Robanar.

I wonder what Penny and Julia think about this?

I suck at drawing

I think that I can just about possibly hold my place with the written word but my drafting skills are just about zero. I couldn't draw a picture of a person to save my life.

Another option would have been to use pictures of available and probably well-known people but that introduces problems of attribution that just complicates my time and focus. I want to write, darnit! I also have little time for side projects like searching through Wikimedia and elsewhere.

Did I mention I suck at drawing?

Penny

Dogs have owners; cats have staff. Grand-daughters have minions.

Re: I suck at drawing

Oh yeah, well I suck at writing and drawing (wait a minute, that didn't come out right!). What I ment to say was I understand about not wanting to spend some coin paying for a copyrighted work. That is why I suggested commissioning a drawing (Don't most published novels have a drawing on the cover?). There are a lot of very creative and talented people out there who produce some amazing art on the Internet.

For instance, do a google search on Lolita drawings then clic on images. If you clic on one of the images it will tell which website the image came from. Most of the best works are from a website called deviantart. This is not a pay site, so I suspect the posters are just showing off their talent to the world. I was hoping that maybe one of these talented people read big closet stories and volunteer to do a drawing of Garia.

Or, you could just identify an actress that resembles your vision of Garia or actor that resembles your vision of Keren or Robanar. Then you could post a chapter consisting of links to a picture of the key characters. I thought that Rex Harrison would be the ideal Robanar (not sure about Carlton Heston as Keren). Audrey Hepburn might resemble your vision of Garia (short hair with a distinctive style), unfortunately she was 5'7". In the movie version of My Fair Lady, the Stars were Rex Harrison and Audrey Hepburn. Their interaction is exactly like I imagine Garia's interaction with The King (Robanar). Unfortunately, (like those poor catless Anmarians), I lack the creativity to imagine what the queen, Milsy, Julina, or the Einnlanders look like.

Julina's likeness is already posted

Look in my Illustrations section of the Anmarian Appendices.

Here's a link:

8. Illustrations:
http://bigclosetr.us/topshelf/fiction/59169/illustrations

Julian's likeness

I passed right over it looking for the maps. One quibble, the picture is of a beautiful women. Shouldn't Julina be much younger. Part of her appeal as a character is her youth.

Deviantart

Some of the art is free. It's licensed under creative commons.

Garia yet lives

Assuming that what Garia brought back gave them a bit of a boost, perhaps she is still alive but involved in things aside from running the planet? Of course their plague leaves her survival questionable. Perhaps she and even Keren are commuting back and forth between Anmar and the realm of the Beings?

There is much to enjoy, indeed admire, here

Hi y'all

What a lively discussion!

For some reason, the cigar business in these here comments requires me to add in an explanation.

My Daddy worked all his life in the cigar business here in the South. (King Edward cigars)
And he told me, when I was just a little girl, that the original expression was in fact to describe something as being like a 'Cigar Tube'. Frequency of use has seen, sadly, the last word dropped.

Every cigar used to be wrapped in a leafy wrapper and was then sealed in a small aluminum tube, with screw cap, to prevent excess humidity from spoiling the product.

The similarity between the aluminum tube and an aircraft was recognised early on, and the aircraft were described as 'Cigar tubes with wings'.

So maybe the 'Cigar' reference used actually means 'Cigar Tube'. ????

But this whole series has been so well done, Penny. I congratulate you.

Thank you for such high-class entertainment.

This needs to be made into a book and a movie.

Savannah.

Garia model height

Audrey Hepburn was five feet seven.

Elizabeth Taylor was five feet two (she did have short hair (not as short as Audrey Hepburn who had really short hair - a very distinctive style).

Loo-Tenant

That must be what a NCO calls its green officer because of where he hangs out before his first battle.

Re: Guest Reader comment on LT

Years ago, a very young Ensign reported to his ship. He was escorted down to the office of his department head. The young Ensign was stunned when his new boss didn't get up, shake his hand and welcome his new Ensign. The department head looked up and said (the first words out of his mouth were) "Ensigns are lower than Whaleshit".

Fifteen years later, a much older LCDR drove up to the officer club ("Top of The Mar") on Guam. He noticed a blue handicapped parking space next to the entrance to the club. Neatly stenciled in white was the words "Any Ensign"

Units of Measure.

This is of course going to be a problem. We don't want another Polar Lander disaster we had on Mars as we were using the wrong UOM.

Thing is, if the Anmar workforce is going to work with Earth units it will be easy to trip up as the idea of a second is different.

This means, as I had anticipated, the constants, at least as far as time and dimensions are concerned, in the Earth knowledge would have required translation to Anmarian ones before they can be used on Anmar, slowing down knowledge transfer.

This also means that a common UOM must be developed when this version of the UFOP comes about.

Units of measure

I'm sure that Anmar is as confused as Earth about various units of measure -- several different definitions of the mile and the foot, for instance. They would do well to adopt a unified unit of measure set.

It would appear that they did exactly as I had expected. They use the metric system, taking advantage of the definitions that are based on physics rather than carefully kept artifacts, but divide their own day into hours, minutes, and seconds.

This means that their units that are not based on time will be identical to ours -- length, work, temperature, etc. Those units that have time incorporated -- power, speed, acceleration, etc., will be off by some 0.08%. Most of them, anyhow. Things with time squared or cubed will be of by more. The speed of light is 299 792 458 m/s for us and 300 038 815 m/s for Anmar.

Uhhh... The metric system is

Uhhh... The metric system is _not_ based on physics. The metric system is a decimalised measurement system based on an arbitrary designation of length. That's it. You could have built something similar simply by decimalising the Imperial system. In fact, for day to day usage, it's not as helpful as the Imperial system, simply because it wasn't based on usage, but on a fantasy put together by a bunch of French scientists, and pushed by Corsican who hated the English.

I'm not going to put in the full diatribe here. It's unimportant. Just remember that a 'meter/metre' is simply a made up length created by an arbitrary division of an estimate of the Earth's diameter at the equator. It's not even _correct_, but when you get down to it, that doesn't matter at all. They could have started off with the 'yard' and called it a 'metre' and they would end up with the same sort of measurement system. (In fact, we -have- that in Imperial. The measurement is called 'mils')

The best measurement system to use is whatever people are comfortable with - not what so-called scientists think _should_ be the right thing. (For a really nasty example - possibly the most extreme ever - look at communism. As a theoretical exercise, it's a fantastic thought structure. In reality, it doesn't work with humans. I do the same sort of outline with people considering getting a concealed carry permit, or even just buying a gun for home. The best gun isn't any specific calibre, it's the one that you'll actually carry and practice with. It does you no good if you leave it on a shelf. )

I'll get a life when it's proven and substantiated to be better than what I'm currently experiencing.

I think you misunderstood.

Yes, the meter was originally based on the length of the meridian passing through Paris. The gram and, by extension, the kilogram, were based on the mass of a quantity of ice water.

In that respect, it is little different from any other system -- the yard being based on the distance between the king's nose and his outstretched hand, the foot being based on the length of one's foot, etc.

My point is that now, the metric system defines all but one of its basic measurements on actual physical constants. There are no artifacts that can be lost or damaged.

For instance, a second is defined as the distance light in a vacuum will travel in a specific period of time. Temperature is based on the triple point of water (which makes it independent of the atmospheric pressure of Earth.)

The list is here: http://chemistry.about.com/od/chemistry101/a/metricbases.htm

The only unit based upon an artifact. That is about to change. The kilogram may soon be defined as a specific number of atoms of 28Si (Silicon 28.)

World's Roundest Object
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZMByI4s-D-Y

The whole point of all of this is that the Anmarans can define their base units on what Garia brought from Earth. As their science and engineering improves, they can refine those definitions?

But, why bother? Why not come up with their own definitions?

The reason is that Garia undoubtedly brought dozens, if not thousands of constants that have been calculated to high precision. That precision will be useless if the Anmarans don't know the real definitions of the units.

Remember, the original reason for Garia's trip to Earth was to get information about Earth technology. That includes hundreds or thousands of physical constants.

Thank you, I was thinking of physical constants of course

Garia brought back measuring sticks (a yard or meter stick, don't remember) as a starting point if you recall, so I am sure Palarand took it all in 'stride'.

^_^

Sort of

The meter was "justified" as a certain portion of an earth circumference but in reality it was based on twice the French ell, a common measure that almost everyone understood. The French ell was slightly longer than the English measure of the same name, yielding a "meter" of almost 40 English inches, coincidentally very close to the proposed millionth of a half meridian.

Similarly, the "liter" worked out to be very, very close to one of the French definitions of the quart and the kilogram came out to about twice the weight of one of the variant pounds used in parts of France. These bases in ancient usage did make it easier to adapt the metric system.

Around the same time France settled on metrics, Americans settled on the "English" system of weights and measures and Britain settled on the "Imperial" system. Later the "English" system and the "Imperial" system were partially rationalized (or rationalised :)) to each other but still differ on the definition of a fluid ounce and how many ounces to a gallon as well as a few other odder measures used in one and not the other.

All this standardization, despite grumbling, was welcomed by commerce which benefited from having well-defined standards usable over wide areas. Before the early 1800s, every nation, sometimes every COUNTY and every INDUSTRY, used different standards. So a pound in Nice was not the same as a pound in Calais and a yard in Sheffield might be different from the one in Bristol. The gallons wine were measured in were not the same as the gallons used for olive oil or milk or cider.

Chaos! Dogs and cats living together!

Standardization turned out to be a good thing. Most of the world eventually settled on the French metric system which had stability and rationality to recommend it. But the USA, as a huge but mostly isolated market, felt no need to conform and resists metricization to this day, despite the fact that, officially all the traditional "English" units are legally defined in terms of metric ones. :)

Hugs,
Erin

= Give everyone the benefit of the doubt because certainty is a fragile thing that can be shattered by one overlooked fact.

Errgh.. Yes and no. You

Errgh.. Yes and no. You'll find that a lot of those 'standardized' measurements are actually either an oddball format that doesn't apply to anything (European paper sizes, for example, make even less sense than American sizes, and let's not get started on the old traditional English ones - based on what you could make from the average sheep), or they're actually -Imperial- measurements (There's not really an 'english' system. It's Imperial, and much of it is based off of Imperial Roman measurements that trickled across a lot of territory). For example, a standard shipping container, used world-wide by _all_ large scale commerce, is 8 feet wide, 8'6" tall, and 20 or 40 feet long. You'll find people talking about them as if they were '6 meter' or '12 meter', but that's a rationalization. They were created by people using Imperial, and the ships were built to that standard. They just pretend that because it's useful, it HAS to be metric :)

That's the whole point around the 'physical constants' - It's not that the 'unit' is based on a physical constant, it's that they took an arbitrary unit and screwed around until they found something they could claim made it wonderful. I mean, you could claim that the mile is based on the speed of light in a second as well. Measure it, and divide by 186,280 :) It's a _lie_, but it's just as true as what they've been doing for 'metric'.

As for the US (and Canada, and the UK, etc - who still do a lot of their basic measurements in Imperial, no matter what the government claims), much of their resistance is based on practicality. People just aren't built to think in decimals. We think in fractions. Half of this, a quarter of that, etc. Base 12 makes a LOT more sense for people than base 10, for example. (You can divide cleanly into it for more numbers) It's just that unless you're from certain regions of Arkansas, Kentucky, and West Virginia, it's hard to use base 12 on your fingers and toes.

We also tend to think in smaller portions than the Metric system went for. (You can easily feel the difference between 1 degree F, let alone 1 degree C. We also measure based on things around us - our 'feet', fingers, etc. An inch is close to the size of one of your knuckles, for example. (pick the one closest, and you have an immediately to hand ruler). Most people know how much their 'foot' is a bit more or less than a 'foot' (in the US). How do you measure with that pinkie nail that's about as wide as a centimetre? Hard to get it down on the table)

If they'd determined that the 'meter' was going to be what is called a 'decimetre', there wouldn't have been as much difficulty using it - people almost never thought in yards on a daily basis. As it is, some of the measurements out there are seriously screwed up, because nutjobs refuse to believe that you can reduce. No, it's NOT 60 centimetres, idiot. It's 6 decimetres. It's NOT 100 centimetres. It's 1 metre, moron. Some things I run across, I swear it would be like saying "it's 40 quarters of an inch!"

So, the Metric system is one of the most non-standardized "standards" I've played with. If people weren't so arrogant about it, I wouldn't get so hot under the collar over it. It's like anything else developed by people - it works for some things, but other things it's not as great. To hear many Europeans, and proponents of "New Math", talk about it, it's filled with angels and unicorns :)

(If you want to see seriously messed up measurements, look up liquid measurements used historically. When you look at _why_ they were used, they make sense individually, but there are SO MANY different fluid measurements that collectively they're nuts)

I'll get a life when it's proven and substantiated to be better than what I'm currently experiencing.

Be that as it may...

Yes, our units are messed up. The ones based on the size of our body parts are inconsistent. Units that have the same name are different units in different countries.

The Americans still think in miles and feet and pounds. The British still use some of them, but also use stones when weighing themselves. And fortnights. And what is the speed of light in furlongs per fortnight?

Anyhow, yes, you can define a second as the time it takes light to travel 186,282 miles. Or, you can define a mile as the distance light will travel 1/186282 seconds. Obviously, you can't do both.

As it is, the meter is defined by the length of the path light travels in a vacuum during 1/299 792 458 of a second. The second is defined to be the duration of 9 192 631 770 periods of the radiation corresponding to the transition between the two hyperfine levels of the cesium-133 atomic ground state. (to quote http://chemistry.about.com/od/chemistry101/a/metricbases.htm)

(By the way, the whole cesium 133 thing is what we use for our master timekeeping -- a batch of cesium atomic clocks at the National Bureao of Standards in Boulder, Colorado.)

There are seven basic SI units. All of the other units are based on those seven. As far as I know, all of the various and sundry weird units used in the world are based on the SI units.

My point is that, even if Anmar decided to use hands and thumbs and all their old units, they have the Earth SI units and all those hundreds of constants. Since they have the definitions of the SI units, they know the hundreds of constants at a precision that is greater than they can now measure them.

Whether they keep the SI units, keep some, keep their traditional units, or even make up their own universal system is immaterial. They have the information, and can translate it to whatever they like.

It appears that they kept the SI units except for the second. Since they have an Earth timepiece, they can determine the difference down to about six significant figures and fix the standards there. Or, after they build their first atomic clock, they can refine the standard further.

As an aside, I used to subscribe to the Engineering Memes group on facebook. One of the common themes among foreign exchange students in American colleges is that there was much whining and wailing and gnashing of teeth about having to use multiple sets of measurements. I told them that if they have such a difficult time converting back and forth -- if multiplying by 25.4 is such a strain, then maybe they ought to consider an easier major.

I finally quit the group because most of the memes was about how hard engineering school is, and how much they hate having to study so hard. whine, whine, whine.

I grew up with both

I grew up with both measurement systems, so I can use both - I personally find the Imperial system more useful on a day to day basis. (non-engineering, non-scientific).

I'll say this - if we _did_ have a 'universal measurement system', I would still insist that engineering and technical people had to learn to use two systems, and how to convert back and forth. There are always going to be conversions, no matter what (We still use Kelvin, for example, instead of Celsius for many measurements - and moles aren't exactly 'metric'). We do NOT want a repeat of the French's "Oh, you meant feet per second?" because they couldn't count (or read specifications, apparently).

It's apocryphal, and 99% wrong, but an excellent 'story' that exemplifies having to use old standards is the engineering joke about how modern rail gauges were based on the width of roman chariots.

https://www.truthorfiction.com/railwidth/

The reason I say 99%, despite the articles saying it's a complete fabrication, is that the concept inside of it is still accurate. Many rail/mining cars were made based on the tooling that wagon and carriage manufacturers already had on hand. It was more economical to keep using it, rather than come up with something special just for the new purpose. Considering how many thousands of miles of roads the Romans built, and that they were a regulation 8 feet wide on the straight, and 16 feet wide on the bend, it makes sense that wagons, even those -not- using those roads, would end up with the same measurements. (NOT metres, you ignorant Gaulish savages that edit Wikipedia) (The really funny part? Apparently in two different sentences in the same paragraph, 8 feet is either 2.4 metres, or 2.45 metres)

(Pet peeve - measurements for constructed items should be given in the units by which they were built. If non-Imperial or non-metric, give a conversion to one or the other (cubits, for example, gur, or ells). It's NOT difficult for people to look up the conversion tables. The reason why? The above is an excellent example. Two different conversions in the same paragraph for the same measurement. )

So, if they were sensible, Anmarians would have done one of two things.

1) Completely wipe out any and all traces of their current measurement system and wholesale convert to another.
2) standardize a current measurement system, and live with two systems side by side for a while, with people knowing the difference between an 'old stride' and 'new stride'.

(Curious note. There is really no unit of 'weight' in the metric system. The French didn't believe in it. There's a unit of 'mass', but not 'weight'. This means constructions in lower gravity conditions will be overbuilt when designed to hold a certain amount of 'stuff', and under built in higher gravity. 600 pounds of 'stuff' from Earth, on the moon would need a shelf capable of holding up 100 pounds of 'stuff'. If it's metric, it'll be built to hold 272 kilos, which doesn't account for gravitational pull at rest)

I'll get a life when it's proven and substantiated to be better than what I'm currently experiencing.

Weight

The weight unit in the metric system is the Newton. We generally call it force, but it's the same thing.

In the standard system, the mass unit is the slug. A slug weighs 32.2 pounds in standard Earth gravity.

Of course, we engineers often refer to pounds mass and pounds force when doing our calculations. It can be confusing, and we need to make sure that we keep them straight -- else we somehow end up with the 'specific impulse' measurement being quoted in seconds. (Heh. Rocket scientists canceling a mass unit with a force unit.)

But all of your points are good ones. And, it would appear that the Anmarans kind of used option two. There is no 'new stride,' but they use the old units alongside the new metric units -- pretty much the way that America and some parts of Europe do.

(But what the heck is a stone, anyhow?)

Paper sizes

While the dimensions the international paper sizes (A/B/C - defined in ISO 216) are derived from are arbritary (namely, the area of A0 being a square metre), their aspect ratio is very logical. By having the paper scaled to be 1:sqrt(2), the next size down can be found by folding a sheet of paper in half, while the next size up can be found by putting two sheets together. The ratio between the two sides is identical across all sizes in the range, so an image on A5 paper can be scaled up to A4, A3, A2, A1 and even A0 while preserving its aspect ratio.

The B series is based on the geometric means between adjacent A sizes (so B0 has a width of one metre) - although you'll rarely see it sold in shops, it's widely used in the printing industry to describe both paper sizes and printing press sizes, plus posters, books and passports.

The C series is based on the geometric means between A and B sizes of the same number and is generally used for envelopes (so a C4 envelope can fit a flat A4 sheet, a C5 envelope can fit an A4 sheet folded in half).

As the right side of the brain controls the left side of the body, then only left-handers are in their right mind!

If you'll notice, however,

If you'll notice, however, the German group (can't blame everything on the French) that put together the paper standards didn't particularly care that they were tramping all over existing common paper sizes.

The ANSI standard, for example, was built by taking the existing _base_ and building up from there. A sized paper (as different from A4) is 8.5x11". B is taking that same paper, then adding another one on. 11x17". Double again, and you get C - 17x22". Double once more, and you get D - 22x34".

By A4 and A/Letter being _almost_ the same size, the Germans made sure that people would be giving computer technicians and printer service technicians work for decades to come. For that alone, I would want to see them shot. I've lost track of how many times I've had to waste my time readjusting paper trays because some numbskull couldn't tell the difference between the Letter and A4 markings.

(We'll STILL avoid the old parchment sizes. They made sense when you were slicing up a sheep, but not much when you're grinding up a tree.)

Oh - they might have been an ANSI standard after 1996, but they were already in heavy use long before that. (My father was an engineer, and even back then, I was involved with plotter sales, etc)

Back to another point, however, - the ISO 216 is still an arbitrary measurement structure based on nothing in particular. I would have more faith in standards that took something in regular/common use, then worked outwards from there, than something that is invented out of whole cloth. ISO 216 was invented out of whole cloth by misguided 'scientists'. ANSI was based on what millions of people were already using - by engineers. (Think of scientists as being 'devisors', and engineers being 'gadgeteers', in the Whately universe, and you won't be far wrong. Most true scientists have a very shaky grip on the real world - they constantly think of how things 'should be'. Great for discoveries, terrible for those who are told to build the sucker. )

I'll get a life when it's proven and substantiated to be better than what I'm currently experiencing.

... and West Virginia, it's hard to use base 12

'on your fingers and toes'

Considering some of the lax pollution laws? Are you sure? ^_~

Or maybe certain relationships?

Hmmmm?

^_^

Lax pollution laws, in West

Lax pollution laws, in West Virginia? They have some TOUGH laws there - lashback against the mining companies that refused to clean up after themselves.

Otherwise, I think you mistook my comment. If you live in one of those areas, you CAN do base 12 with fingers and/or toes. (Although, my mother has _five_ on each limb. Sorry, the Scots blood is too cheap to provide extra digits)

I'll get a life when it's proven and substantiated to be better than what I'm currently experiencing.

The Chinese Can

Count to six on one hand. The thumb and little finger up with the other fingers down is six.

Tech impressions of visiting ships

Don't know how fast their FTL drive is but it is not bad if it took only 2 hours to go around a third of an orbit.at that distance.

Considering they achieved an average in-system speed of approximately .2 lightspeed to get to Anmar, they have a pretty powerful standard drive.

Definitely not 'Star Trek' TOS class as described so far.

One wonders if there is any major technological trade these Nirvanians can make really. Anmar can pull a China by being the shipyard and figure out how their FTL drive works and no doubt improve upon it or develop a technology from whole cloth using 'interspace' in very short order and without any 'patent' or 'exclusvity license' violations.

And artificial gravity too

It would be pain to have a spacecraft that needs to spin to have 'gravity'. I suspect they are using their hyperdrive capability to provide local gravity or maybe there is another sci-fi babble that can account for it.

Not what happened

The Vasco da Gama made a 'micro-jump' through hyperspace which took appreciably no time at all.

It then took two hours for their systems to stabilize and for them to take sensor readings of all natural bodies within range.

Then they moved 120 degrees and did it again. That gave them enough data to triangulate all those bodies, providing a reasonably accurate three-dimensional chart of the Anmar system.

Lastly they used their in-system drive towards the major body (Anmar) which was emitting the most neutrinos, as being the one in the habitable zone and likely to contain some kind of civilization.

Thank you for commenting,

Penny

PS: Oops. Looks like I miscalculated the time it would take for the ship to travel in from the outer system to Anmar. Given the stated time and distance, that would actually be greater than 1.0c. I need to recalculate the timestamps on the emails, but the end result should be what a reasonable person would expect to observe.

Dogs have owners; cats have staff. Grand-daughters have minions.

Depends on what that distance value meant

I had assumed the distance in question was from 1.7billion or so marks to their star.

Now it would depend on how long they waited before setting a course for Anmar after the last microjump.

I assumed they started out immediately after the last microjump plus subtracted the estimated orbit of Anmar from the star and of course assumed the Vasco is not antipode to Anmar. So that was the best guess I could make based on available facts.

The speed must needs be an average as I would assume it would take time to accelerate and decelerate on 'impulse' drive, based on Star Trek terms.

Communications and Broadcast satellites

So is their interspace communication networks point-to-point only? I am assuming there has been no terrestrial broadcasting as there is no radio according to Keren.

If interspace eliminates so much then why are there any communications and broadcast satellites? And how would they be identified as such without a) emissions b) normal EM band antennas?

I would suggest maybe they are assuming that is what those satellites are?

Not sure...

Radio has its place. If it's being used on Anmar, then the defcon 4 lockdown probably turned off all of the transmitters.

The point-to-point communication boxes that they are using are probably some kind of a quantum tunneling spooky-action-at-a-distance thing that gives you instantaneous communication between any two nodes.

I would love to see such a thing happen here. It would allow for secure point to point communication between any two people anywhere. For a network, it would be a simple matter for everyone to have one end of a communicator, with the other end hooked into a hub.

Think of it like an Ethernet system. Each computer is hooked into a hub, and that hub is hooked into other hubs and routers. Soon, we have a worldwide net that is totally distributed and not controlled by any group of major hubs.

Our current Internet infrastructure is such that, should someone invent these magical spooky action at a distance 'cables,' the Internet would very quickly become faster and more secure. And those that own all of the optical fiber bundles right now would cease to have any real control over what goes through the net. If there are any bottlenecks, we can just go around them.

And the Great Firewall of China, along with other similar bottlenecks, will cease to have control over the hearts and minds of their citizens.

I suspect it is even more than that

I suspect they have the analogue of Power over Ethernet also. This would of course account for the lack of solar panels and power for those communicators. I suspect there is no need for power lines on this planet.

Knowledge of Interstellar travel

Just to play devil's advocate. So it seems to me Anmar does not have FTL travel but what is there to prevent the use of periodic 'transfers' from Earth? One would think that Maralin would not be the last one? Along with the transfers could possibly be someone who has specialist knowledge of FTL drives.

Possibly that is already happening and Anmar's current technological know how is already being bolster with certain key transfers of knowledge over the course of these two centuries.

Future transfers

There is nothing in SEE to indicate that the Beings will cease doing transfers the moment Garia returns.

You can take it as read that certain judicious transfers will still be made throughout the centuries, right up until the point that FTL travel makes them unnecessary. After Garia's time doubtless she will be consulted on what and who to move.

Don't forget that a point will come when Anmar begins to outstrip Earth and its colonies in certain respects. At that point Anmar may become a source for transferees, not just a destination.

Penny

Dogs have owners; cats have staff. Grand-daughters have minions.

It's unlikely that transfers

It's unlikely that transfers would work very well going the other way, at least to any of the main colonies. There are too many issues with records. For Anmar, and developing colonies, it's less likely that people will be fussed about a 'new person' with no identity cards. For Earth? It's sad, but a lot of places assume you're not a citizen unless you have the right paperwork - even if you were born there, raised there, everyone around you vouches for you, and so forth - if your paperwork is destroyed, you're a non-person.

Anmar, however, realises there _will_ be transfers (in the areas that are likely to have identity papers soon), so will make adjustments for them.

I'll get a life when it's proven and substantiated to be better than what I'm currently experiencing.

giggles, I cant wait to see what's next

fun stuff!

I agree

I was expecting the epilogue would cover the weeks after Garia's return. I never expected this. This is awesome. And it fills in more of the overall plot.

Garia's still alive

As an emerged being, at this point. I wish I could have seen more of Garia's story. but I will enjoy what I' m given. Thank you penny

Evil

You need more chapter before the epilogue we need to see more Keren and Garia can we get another book please.

hugs :)
Michelle SidheElf Amaianna

I like it, but....

To me this isn't an epilogue, it's a whole new story. I want to know what happened when Garia got back. Whaaaaa!

Wil

Aine

Surprise surprise

Garia made it back, likely memory deprived for a few days, but with how much of the things Gary had with him at the time of the crash?

And now two hundred years into Anmar's future, with all the advances. How crazy did the guild and questors go when Garia showed them everything that came back with her? How many children did Garia and Keren have? What was the final design of the railroad, they did talk about an electric engine? Was a bridge finally built over the Sirrel?

Will Keren decide it time to explain how Anmar and Earth were populated? And some of the technology they have? Starting with the communicator.

Garia being able to visit the Beings, and they realizing she can, might she finally emerged at, or before, her death?

Others have feelings too.

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