I just discovered that at Amazon I can specify "Made in Canada Only" products. So to test I bought some cookies.
Just being as snotty and disrespectful as possible.
Gwen Brown
Buying Canadian Only
A word from our sponsor:
BigCloset TopShelf
TopShelf TG Fiction in the BigCloset!
The Hatbox
Checks can be made out & sent to:
Joyce Melton
1001 Third St.
Space 80
Calimesa, CA 92320
USA
Note: $6000 is the operating, maintenance and upgrade budget. Amounts received in excess of the $6000 will be applied to long term debt accrued over the last 19 years.
If you prefer, you can donate through Patreon:
Become a Patron!
Thank you!
Comments
The only problem with that concept…….
Is that you never know where the ingredients came from. The same is true with parts in manufacturing, or raw materials for anything you buy.
I remember the first new car I ever bought in 1982 - I was looking at a Toyota Celica GT, but I let family members pressure me into buying “an American made car”; so I bought a Mustang GT instead. I was in fact very happy with the car - it was the first year Ford offered the 5.0 liter High Output V8 in them, and I special ordered it in monochrome silver with all black trim, no chrome.
But my point here is that my “American made car” was assembled in Canada of parts manufactured in several countries, including Mexico. If I had bought the Toyota, it would have been assembled in the United States - I believe Kentucky was the assembly location for Toyota. So which car was actually “American made”?
Having spent years working in the supply chain industry, there are very few things which do not include raw materials, parts, or ingredients purchased from a different country these days. We are very inter-dependent on each other as countries, which is not a bad thing in all honesty. The problem lies in Trump and people like him preying on the ignorance and prejudice of the undereducated masses in this country, and other groups doing the same in other countries.
Tariffs do not work; their only function is protectionism and taxation. They were designed to provide taxes to governments - taxes which are paid by the importer, not the country exporting the goods. This is what I do for a living - my office deals with tariffs on imported goods every day, and the tariffs are levied on the importer. Which is the company buying the goods. When Trump enacted his tariffs during his first term, my employer (the largest independently owned retail chain in the US) absorbed as much of the cost as we were able in order to keep from having to raise our prices. This allowed us to stay competitive in the marketplace. However, you can only absorb so much before it becomes unprofitable - which meant that we did in fact have to eventually pass through the increased costs to the consumer. My point being that contrary to the Orange Asshole’s comments, tariffs are paid by the consumer, and only an idiot doesn’t realize that they are only going to push prices up. Tariffs are essentially just another sales tax.
The second thing tariffs were designed to do was to protect domestic industries - but they do that by forcing prices upward! They protect domestic industries by raising the cost of imported goods, which does not benefit the consumer. It eliminates competition, which basically allows a company to stay in business without improving their processes to become more competitive. We are propping up a company that should no longer be in business. In business, the basic tenet is improve or die.
Not to mention the fact that all this will simply drive reciprocal tariffs, which will hurt consumers even more. No one wins in a trade war - no one that is except the rich assholes like Trump. Tariffs hurt the middle and lower classes disproportionately, and the rich just get richer.
Tariffs are like the old saying…….. an eye for an eye and pretty soon everyone is blind.
D. Eden
“Hier stehe ich; ich kann nicht anders. Gott helfe mir.”
Dum Vivimus, Vivamus
It Is Illegal.....
Voicing what I think should happen could get me arrested.
There is a place for tariffs but ...
... only if they're very selective and limited in time. They can help to protect a local industry against an aggressive foreign exporter until they get up to speed or if the foreign imports are being sold at less than cost in order to kill local competition so they can up the price later. But blanket tariffs as imposed by the Orangeman (not an Irish Protestant btw) achieve little in a trade war and I agree with your last line.
What I don't understand is the idea of who ultimately pays for a tariff - it can only be the consumer (or perhaps the importer is able to absorb the extra cost in the short term). The exporter loses only in lost sales because their products become more expensive but that, of course, can be disastrous for them.
Your comment on who pays for tariffs…….
Is exactly what I said - tariffs are ultimately paid by the consumer. Trump keeps trying to convince people that the country of origin pays them, just like Mexico is going to pay for the border wall. Unfortunately there are millions of stupid and gullible people in this country who still believe this.
As for the country of origin losing sales - that is usually only a short term issue as they simply switch markets. A good case in point would be all of the oil and petroleum products we buy from Canada. Canada has been selling to us at a discounted rate due to reciprocal trade arrangements - which are going out the window with Trump’s tariffs. China would easily buy the oil we buy from Canada, and at a higher price as well.
People are incredibly stupid, and unfortunately it will be a very painful lesson for them to learn. American farmers got hurt badly by the tariffs Trump instituted in his first term, and Trump had to use a large amount of the money the US government earned from those tariffs to bail out the farmers hurt by China’s reciprocal tariffs and lost sales to China. So the net gain to the US government was essentially zero.
The same thing will happen again - and to make things worse, one of the single largest buyers of US agricultural products was USAID. Doing away with the USAID programs which distributed food stuffs from American farms around the world will also hurt American farmers.
Yep, going to be a very painful lesson for all of us over the next few years. It’s a good thing the Orange Asshat is going to lower food prices the first day he is in office, huh?!?! What a fucking joke that was.
D. Eden
“Hier stehe ich; ich kann nicht anders. Gott helfe mir.”
Dum Vivimus, Vivamus
As usual
Your comments are correct. The only thing I could think of that would or could be considered totally "American made" would be if you were to buy grass fed beef with no antibiotics from a local farmer.
Even then, go back a few generation of cattle and it may well be that the bull or the cow was imported.
I'm not in favor of bail outs of any kind. Your axiom of "improve or die" should indeed be the only way businesses stay in business. No business, no industry is of such vital importance to the survival of the country or the people that the whole country should carry the burden of keeping it in business.
Hugs
Patricia
Happiness is being all dressed up and HAVING some place to go.
Semper in femineo gerunt
Ich bin ein femininer Mann
And don't forget
So you go out to buy a Kia or Toyota or mini Cooper and they charge you a wallet full extra for tariffs, cause they sure aren't gonna pay them. But, if they leave off the trim package, or power steering is dealer installed package, with maybe the same for your a/c unit, they can then bring it into the US as unfinished for a lot less money, cause they can claim it was assembled here in the US. Same withall thoseFords from Canada andVWs from Mexico.
The fallacy to that concept…….
Is that you will still pay a tariff on every part that is imported.
D. Eden
“Hier stehe ich; ich kann nicht anders. Gott helfe mir.”
Dum Vivimus, Vivamus
{Yank here} "snotty and disrespectful" has been ...
... very, very well, very extravagantly =earned= by the one we (some of us) designate as #47. [1]
--
Please see: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Too_Much_and_Never_Enough, written by #47's niece, who is a clinical psychologist. Subtitle: "How My Family Created the World's Most Dangerous Man".
I simply do not have the guts to dig in to 47's actions, nor have I checked the responses of our Congress. I fear that Congress's position is largely supine with their legs spread. It takes longer for cases to reach the Supreme Court, but I expect similar.
I find myself puzzled by the very mild reactions of Canada. Again, I have not checked, but I have heard nothing [2] of the (re)actions of Australia and the United Kingdom; Likewise Mexico.
Call me means spirited ... but would have no problems with Australia, Canada, Mexico and the UK sealing their borders and closing their airspace.
---
[1] I will respect (?) #47's, name and pronouns when =it= respects =We the People" - and =all= of the words following. "We the People" are the first three words of the USA Constitution.
[2] I severely limit my intake of news, in an attempt to guard my sanity and mental heath. Does this make me 'less' of a Global Citizen? ... That's a certainty. Sorry.
=== ===
I confess I have vast areas of ignorance and lack of education ... so, Please be gentle in "beating up on" me.
I try to buy British goods when I can
But the Tories under Thatcher destroyed so much of our manufacturing base that it can be quite difficult to avoid buying whatever is available. I do however, refuse to buy anything made or grown in Israel, the government is as despicable as Trumpism. No wonder history shows how hated and discriminated the Jews were, if they were anything like the government of Israel is now, they deserved it. I am not antisemitic just offended by the Israeli government.
Angharad
i too
prefer to buy from my home nation, even going as far as preferring Yorkshire made products lol. If i can't buy local items i will try to use our near neighbours in Europe before looking further afield so i avoid anything from New Zealand, Australia, Africa, the Americas that can be made closer. If NZ lamb is cheaper than UK lamb in the UK even after shipping half way around the world they are clearly dumping, same for new world wines etc, etc. Of course there are some things that have to be sourced from distant lands as they aren't produced closer.
A big danger for US companies is that if tariffs are put on say EU goods, the EU (or wherever) may take punitive steps against US corporations operating in their markets, it could get uncomfortable for the likes of Coca Cola, Boeing etc further eroding US stock. We are already seeing sales of a certain EV brand being severely hit even without government interventions. The Canadians are already making their thoughts clear, others will follow, the US does not currently have many friends and it will lose more with the ripping up of statutes and aid programmes, the Chinese will be only too happy to jump into the breach, extending their influence with even less concern than the US.
The UK currently has a government of idiots, no better than those they replaced, the difference is that they aren't intent on destroying decades of laws and agreements, just the economy!
Just for the record, our eggs are cheaper than even Canada's lol
Madeline Anafrid Bell
We Have Just Been Through It
A few years ago China imposed exorbitant tariffs on a number of our exporting industries, which were clearly designed to punish us for not being politically subservient. Tariffs on wines, lobsters, barley, etc, really hurt our exporters. They even claimed our coal was radioactive and delayed shipments for up to a year.
We had little trouble finding alternative markets for some commodities, although the prices may not have been as good. Almost hilariously we still sent our lobsters to Hong Kong, from where they were smuggled across the border for huge profits amongst the criminals, and still eagerly consumed by the Chinese, but our lobster industry still suffered. Most of our barley went to brewers, so the Chinese ones suffered. Major Chinese companies like Tsing Tsao had to buy elsewhere at higher prices. We then sold to the Middle East.
Worst hit were our wine exports, as China took 75% of those and it proved difficult to find other markets with the same volume and value. The value of our exports was reduced by an annual billion dollars.
A new government negotiated the removal of those tariffs without compromising our sovereignty, just by not being as politically provocative as the previous outfit (and they were provocative, so the Chinese had a legitimate problem with them) so we're pretty much back to normal, except for the lost revenue. We also know that Tariffs can be used for political purposes. China is pretty ruthless in this regard but also pragmatic. When it was clear that the imposts were not going to bring us to our knees and we were no longer offending them politically they withdrew them.
The tariffs being touted and implemented by Trump do not have the same logic. To think that they will attract manufacturing back to the USA is pure fantasy. I foresee major smuggling arising on the 4000 mile long Canadian border, for instance, just like in the good old days of Prohibition. Well, maybe the manufacture of fentanyl will return to the USA. If there are any refugees along that border they are most likely to be travelling North, not South.
The best examples of using tariffs are the ones used on controlling "sin", i.e. alcohol, tobacco and vehicle fuels. In most jurisdictions these are extremely heavy but are aimed at reducing consumption and boosting government revenues. Who pays? The consumer of course. Why would anyone think that the results would be any different for any other imports?
A couple of comments have been made about buying British in the UK (we have the same useless sentiments in Australia). If you don't produce enough of a particular commodity you either do without it or you pay the price which it commands. NZ lamb sells because it is better quality and priced competitively, for instance. The same with wines. The reason they can be sent to the UK is that they are a) pretty good, and b) they do not bear their home country taxes when they go overseas, and c) the Brits produce very little home-grown wine. QED.
The proposed US tariffs do not conform to either of these norms. They are the product of a mind that only understands their use for the gain of himself and his wealthy cohorts. They have no basis in economic reality and the lies used to justify them will eventually rebound, but by then the population of the USA will have paid the price.
I have to
Take issue with some of your assertions.
NZ lamb is fine but it’s not better than British just somehow cheaper. As for wine, there are vineyards in England producing reasonable wine, but not in large quantities. Wine has therefore been imported for at least 2000 years but from our near neighbours in Europe, my point was that shipping something from the other side of the world when it can be had ‘domestically’ is not sensible on any level.
Tariffs only work on goods you can’t source locally as in your Chinese examples but not in the way those imposing them hope!
Madeline Anafrid Bell
Absurdity of international shipping
That reminds me of a comparison made some 30+ years ago to illustrate the absurdity of international shipping.
Paraguay has no crude oil resources of their own. And they had only one refinery tuned to a very specific blend of crude oil from Algeria. So the crude oil had to be shipped in ocean going tankers from Algeria to either Uruguay or Argentina where it had to be transferred to river barges for transport to land-locked Paraguay. Once refined, the various fuels were then trucked to service stations all over the country.
At that time in the late 1990s, one liter of premium gasoline (nafta super) was priced at about ₲1.200,–. Meanwhile one liter of Coca-Cola was priced at about ₲5.000,–.
Consider that Coca-Cola — or any similar soft drink — is actually simple water that you can collect from abundant rainfall with some (well maybe a lot) sugar, flavoring, coloring and CO2 gas added. Compare that with the long transport of oil and the poor yield from the refinery for the gasoline. And suddenly the price of Coca-Cola starts to feel like usury. Or the price of gasoline is an absurdity.
The consumer of course.
The bottom line is that where ever an increased cost is introduced, whether it be in raw material, employee wages, transportation or tax, whoever has to absorb that cost will pass it on to the next entity in the supply chain, until it gets to the consumer with a 40% markup. The consumer has no one to pass it on to and must absorb all of it themselves
Hugs
Patricia
Happiness is being all dressed up and HAVING some place to go.
Semper in femineo gerunt
Ich bin ein femininer Mann
There Are Reasons
For buying/importing from faraway places. Before the UK joined the Common Market (as it was then) much of Britain's dairy products came from New Zealand and Australia because your tariffs discriminated against European products. Lamb still comes from NZ because the quality is good (I won't argue whether it is better than Welsh lamb. We can have different opinions) and the price is competitive. Also the producing times are different from the home-grown, so it hits your shelves when local produce is low. No European country can provide the same quantities and quality desired by the British consumer.
I don't claim that our wines make up the majority of your consumption but you would have to concede that there is a market for them. If they were not of good quality and reasonably priced you would not buy them, and let's be honest, your home-grown wines can't hold a candle to them. I can recall buying one of my favourite Aussie wines in Sainsbury's for about the same price as I would have paid at home. This is probably a result of not having our taxes imposed on that wine. It is not dumping because I have bought our wines in Hong Kong for similar prices. They (used to) have no taxes on them.
My dad used to be on a run (merchant seaman) from Rosario in Argentina to England and their cargo was corned beef. The Fray Bentos factory was in Rosario and it was a very popular brand in your country. That's near enough to half-way round the world but you Brits couldn't get enough of it.
Some fruits and vegetables have British markets because they are out-of-season, or not produced there. Tropical stuff like mangoes and guavas come to mind, not forgetting kiwifruit.
I'm sure we could find other examples but it's getting rather off-topic. The starting point of this discussion was that Tariffs are paid by the consumer. It's only incidentally about nationalism, because one maniac hasn't got a clue about how they work or what their impact is.